[POLL] What matters most for maxed-out 🏋️‍♂️ Wyze Cam success?

[peepeep]

To max-out successfully:

@carverofchoice

I have never tried viewing all 50 at the same time, but I have gotten up to 30+ livestreams at the same time (I think I’ve gotten 20 at the same Time on Wyze’s Web Portal and 30 something on the same monitor using a 3rd party RTSP converter), though not directly in Wyze App itself though.

What matters most?

• High-end router/mesh
• Solid ISP with ample throughput up and down
• Deep know-how in placing and configuring everything
• High-end phone

[peepeep]

I should point out that the typical Wyze customer ’ has only 1-2 cams’ - though many may scale up at some point.

8-12 is ‘maxed-out’ for me. Beyond 3-4 and the stuff above starts to matter, imo.

[dave27]

I think for most people it is going to be the limitation of the 2.4ghz band, which unfortunately can’t do much about. AX/Wifi6 helps add more bandwidth to 2.4ghz and deals with congestion better, but until your devices and neighbors have all moved over, it isn’t a giant leap forward.

[ssummerlin]

I will never see 20 cameras on my network. I am certain that I won’t have that need or desire.

[ronl4625]

@dave27,

Agreed.

I know I’m preaching to the choir with you but there are alternatives to the 2.4 band (I know you know this). Hopefully someone will read this and start thinking about unloading the 2.4 band. The heartbeat packets from a simple plug add up.

Recently decided to install leak sensors. I knew my 2.4 band, with 50 devices (10 cams), would not be happy with another 10 devices I decided to explore other solutions. I ended up with Yolink. They use the 915mHz band. Hmmm. Their claim to fame is LoRa (Long Range) with 1/4 mile range and a 5 year battery on the leak sensors (if it’s half that I’m impressed). It does require a hub but I think the hub and 8 sensors was a few hundred dollars. The bit rate can be extremely slow, but I’m guessing a packet or two is all that’s needed. They do not make cameras.

Install was painless and the connectivity is stellar. These little sensors were placed under the sink, next to the washer dryer, under the water heater, etc. None of these places were wifi friendly.

I was pleasantly surprised that I added 8 new devices and it did not effect my 2.4, 5, or 6 bands. Decided to spend a bit more replacing my Kasa plugs (excellent plugs). Over the past few weeks I’ve replaced at least 15 plugs. After the first 6 or so I started to see my cameras running quicker. Not measured but seat of the pants. I replaced the next 9 plugs and that when I saw measurable improvements.

There were two areas of improvement.

1. My litmus test was bringing up a group with 10 cameras. Fairly solid (excluding beta screwups). I was able to add two more cameras for a total of 12 and they all load within 30 seconds, and that includes 3 WBCP’s. I tried one more camera and that was to many. Left it at 12.

2. The following was the biggy. A secondary litmus test was my waving test. I have a Pan Scan v3 approx 12 ft from my recliner. With the previous 10 cameras when I waved at the camera there would be a 1-2 second delay before my wave reached the camera. With the reduced load on the 2.4 band the wave was instaneous or at max a half second. All close to real time.

I decided that the improvements were worth it but I had to stop as better half informed me I was out of “discretionary income”. I listened.

Bottom line.

Reduced my load on the 2.4 band from 50 devices to 35 devices.

Increased the number of cams I can support in a group

Increased response time of the cameras.

Spent more money than I expected.

I still have at least 10 devices that can be unloaded. After that I’m into wall switches, thermostats, sprinkler controllers, etc. Devices I don’t plan on replacing.

Also will have to wait a while for discretionary income to reload.

[dave27]

@ronl4625

They use the 915mHz band

Blink has been using the LFR band for their cameras for a while with the sync module, but only for control, the video was still sent over Wifi. I hear the latest sync module and cams are using it for video now too, but I’m guessing they’ve had to add more compression to get it to “fit”. Haven’t played with the new ones so not sure. I believe only one cam can stream/record at a time, but from what I’ve seen on my neighbors older setup, even when the video was sent over 2.4, it would only do one at a time.

LFR makes a lot of sense for stuff like smart plugs, bulbs, pretty much anything that needs low bandwidth and can benefit from extended range. Problem is, you need something to act as a hub, and unless wifi routers start implementing it, you can bet each brand will have their own proprietary one.

Aside from them opening up more space in 2.4ghz or some other similar frequency range (and everyone getting new hardware) hard to see a good way forward. 5ghz and 6ghz are great, as long as distances are short and they don’t have to penetrate anything too solid. I guess it is a good sign that more and more stuff is using LFR, they’re recognizing that 2.4 isn’t reliable enough anymore, maybe the more that goes that way, it will start freeing up 2.4. Of course, given that it has longer distance and penetration, that just means 900mhz will get congested. But since it is mostly small bandwidth and brief communications, maybe that won’t be as big of an issue.

The only other hope is people start adopting Wifi6 compatible 2.4ghz stuff, which makes much better use of the spectrum. But I think it will be a long time before the chips are cheap enough to put in smart bulbs and outlets and the like.

Sort of like IPv6, it solves a big problem, but it is far easier to keep working around the problem and shoe-horning more stuff into the current model.

[ronl4625]

All good points. My goal is to totally off load the 2.4band. Only use the band for cameras.

If I had my druthers I would put everything on the 5 and 6 bands if the cameras supported 6 and 6e. We live in a small 1500 Sq ft home. I get good 5gHz signal everywhere except the garage. I found that the WBCP (even the bird Feeder at the fence line in the backyard) work better on 5gHz than than 2.4. But I haven’t seen wyze implement it other than the WBCP.

Your right about the hub. I was a bit nervous about going that route again as I had marginal success with the earlier battery cams with the wyze hub. The yolink hub is cheap, uses ethernet to connect with the router 3ft away. Definitely plug and play.

Your much better with the specs than I am but I seem to remember hearing/reading that wifi 8 will have negotiated transmit power. If implemented that should greatly reduce the interference that we see on the 2.4 band. Of course that will take years for all the routers and devices to reach wifi 8.

Good discussion

[dave27]

@ronl4625

I seem to remember hearing/reading that wifi 8 will have negotiated transmit power. If implemented that should greatly reduce the interference that we see on the 2.4 band. Of course that will take years for all the routers and devices to reach wifi 8.

There are lots of proposals for ways to make 2.4 better. Some were implemented with Wifi4 which actually made a huge difference (two networks on the same channel can coexist fine and share the spectrum), 6 has added some more. 8 has a lot of drafts and proposals, not sure if anything has solidified into the spec yet.

But yeah, as you say, the problem is it takes a decade for an old version to fall off and for newer stuff to be able to use the new features to their full potential.

If only we could send a note to our neighbors like the cable and cellular companies do from time to time. “Your hardware is no longer supported, you have 60 days to replace it before it stops working”.

Heck I’m guilty, I still have a Draft-N device. If I really wanted to be a jerk I could pull out my old B and G PCMCIA cards and their high gain external antennas and flood the neighborhood.

[peepeep]

@dave27 @ronl4625

I’ll just add that the latest Wyze app supports Android as old as ‘Pie’ (v9 released 2018) which means many customers may be operating with older, underpowered phones. Some way underpowered if they weren’t high-end when new.

@ssummerlin Things are solid for you. Do you have more than four cams? Do any of them have less than a consistently ‘strong’ signal?

I have one cam with middling/erratic signal that consistently degrades the performance of an otherwise signal-strong group. Ie, all cams in the group act as though their signals are middling/erratic.

It is inessential so I exclude it from the group when need be - which perks it right up.

[peepeep]

I changed my initial vote (a single selection):

1 - Deep know-how in placing and configuring everything

…to:

1 - High-end router/mesh
2 - High-end phone
3 - Solid ISP with ample throughput up and down
4 - Deep know-how in placing and configuring everything

[dave27]

@peepeep

I’ll just add that the latest Wyze app supports Android as old as ‘Pie’

I’m still running the 2.5 app on my spare phone that runs Oreo/8. That phone (Samsung J7 supplied by work) was severely underpowered when brand new (nothing but the best for employees), but surprisingly runs even a cam group of 4 cams live streaming fine. Not as snappy as my main phone obviously.

I think when you start getting into discussions of 10, 20, 30 cams, you’re going to find there are many factors involved that are equally important. But the first one in the line is your wifi.

But similar to cars, replace your engine and you’ll blow your transmission

[dave27]

@peepeep

1 - High-end router/mesh

Another thought - “High End” these days focuses very much on 5ghz and 6ghz. So a high end, expensive router might not perform any better on 2.4 than an old one, heck could even be worse.

I’ve got a 4 stream 2.4 ghz old AC router dedicated for my IOT stuff. Obviously the cams are only single stream devices but having 4 antennas and signal paths is better than the 2 or 3 that most modern routers have for 2.4ghz. My main router is 3 stream for 2.4. I’ve been eying a replacement that is 4 stream on both to potentially consolidate them, but this setup works well. Maybe if more of my IOT stuff starts supporting AX 2.4ghz I’ll consider it more, but with the exception of my one v4, everything is N. Well that spare phone I mentioned runs on the IOT wifi too but it uses 5ghz AC 99% of the time. Same for my fire stick etc.

I think if I got to the point I wanted 10 or more cams, I’d be looking into hardwired solutions.

[peepeep]

Ah so.

I’m getting the impression the Multi-Cam Timeline is maybe a whole new programming ‘module’ (?) loosely integrated/attached with/to the old platform. The function of the 4-up full screen landscape group is somewhat different and the performance better. The little 4-up groups above the timeline, too. Substantially more ‘solid’ when quickly ‘working them out.’

Wyze intended to rewrite the whole app from scratch at one time but abandoned the idea and pressed on. Maybe this is a way to transform it by ‘module’ in stages?

IANAProgrammer, obviously. Just a sense.

[dave27]

@peepeep

They intended to rewrite the whole app from scratch at one time but abandoned the idea and pressed on. Maybe this is a way to transform it by ‘module’ in stages?

Well, in my line of work, what I want to do vs. what the company will pay for often explains the difference.

With government it is “why build one when you can build two for double the cost”. In the private sector it is “why build one when you can do it half baked (don’t think the other word is allowed) for 3/4 the cost”.

[ssummerlin]

@peepeep

@ssummerlin Things are solid for you. Do you have more than four cams? Do any of them have less than a consistently ‘strong’ signal?

Things remain solid.

I have 9 cams. I really don’t need two v2s but I put one in the garage and one looking down on my door step.

I have micro SD cards in all but my door step cam. Two of my 3 v2 cams shutown at dusk and back on at sunrise.

The OG is slow to respond some times but it is further away from my satellite mesh node. All cams show max signal.

I have 3 cams on UPS.

Internet and power have been really reliable. I haven’t found an offline cam ever. They recover after an outage, which I haven’t seen in a while.

All but one cam is on its private IOT 2.4 GHz network. Been too lazy to move the other over.

Also have 4 bulbs (2 Kasa, 2 Wyze)

I just remembered that I have two PIR sensors and one bridge.

No issues at all using standard micro SD for event recording since 2019.

I only use IR and sound in the garage.

I use a Wifi 6 mesh network with two nodes on ADSL. At the time 6e cost too much for my budget.

All cams are in the house or in the garage. No cams in private areas or outside.

I do use a Samsung S24 and S21 with an A9+ tablet.

I have 8 cams in one group. The lone cam only shows on favorite along with one other cam.

I have loads of other wifi-dependent items on 2.4GHz and 5GHz. All entertainment and cellphones are on 5GHz.

[dave27]

@ssummerlin

The OG is slow to respond some times but it is further away from my satellite mesh node. All cams show max signal.

That’s odd, my OGs are by far the fastest responders, nearly instant live view. Happened after a firmware update last year sometime that said it “improved connectivity for web view”. Wish they’d push that same improvement to the others, but a couple seconds isn’t too bad. 3 of them don’t even have great wifi signal and are still immediate. Maybe something going on with that mesh node. I suppose phones could factor in also, they all have different power and memory saving “rules” built in.

Mine even stream via Wyze servers and not direct (though sounds like yours do too with the IOT network).

[ssummerlin]

Also wanted to note that Wyze cams work the same over my 5G phone service.

OG acts same. Nearest node may be too far away but maintains max signal. I never had the OG anywhere else. It replaced a v2 that could not see in the dark.

[dave27]

@ssummerlin

It replaced a v2 that could not see in the dark.

Didn’t eat enough carrots?

I think the signal strength meter in the app is pretty unreliable. I have some that show stronger signal than they should based on what my router sees, and some that show no bars but behave perfectly fine.

[ssummerlin]

Sitting right next to the OG and nearest node looks best.

Guess I need to check which node it is connecting to.

EDIT: Cam is connected to nearest node.

[dave27]

My worst OG is -59 from the router’s perspective. v4 is -62 to -65 and one of my Panv3s is pretty fringe, fluctuating between -66 and -72 depending on the weather and wifi activity in the area. When it is -70 or below it stutters a bit but not too bad. When it was mounted upside down (before I learned my lesson) it was -65 or better.

But I also periodically RF scan and move channels as needed, though I think I’ve “taught” all my neighbors routers that are set to “auto” to avoid my channel at this point, haven’t had to move it in a long time.