The Doorbell Duo Cam, Alexa, and an Echo Dot walk into a bar - How are they linked?!

[cdznutts]

I want to see if anyone has experienced this and may have some technical knowledge on what the heck is going on here. I’m a little privacy sensitive with all these devices, apps, and IoT things around us …and I try to understand things the best I can to make sure I know what privacies I’m giving up to have this convenient thing or another. We all give up something in regards to privacy by using these devices. It’s unavoidable nowadays.

Ever since I got this Wyze duo cam doorbell (DCD) to replace my original Wyze (wired) video doorbell, besides the other issues I’ve experienced with the device (on other threads) , I’ve been getting doorbell notification from our Echo dot, 3rd gen. We’ve had it for years and we use it for trivial things, nothing integrated or anything. We mostly use it to ask for the weather forecast, set cooking timers, etc. very simple things.

I didn’t know or understand how the echo was linked to the duo cam DCD. I just got the darn thing! It’s a nice and welcomed notification, since the echo sits in our living room. So, it would be nice to know someone rang the doorbell. Buuuut. And a big but it is – I never gave it permission to do this! I never asked it to. I was/am busy battling all the other issues with the device. Was this convenient? Maybe for some. Unsettling to me. I’ve been down a rabbit hole all week trying to figure this out. I’m probably going to put in a support ticket/email with Wyze in addition to this post. I’ll see if anyone has any valid comments on it first.

Now before you mention to check this setting or that setting or check your alexa app routines, skills, etc. Or, check your ‘smart integrations’ setting in Wyze… let me show you my settings. I’ve been on this for a week now. So, I’ve tried a lot of “things.” I even asked copilot to help.

For reference I’m using a Pixel with Android 14.

Lets start with Wyze/Alexa settings:
Under the account tab in the app.

Alexa is not linked.

Moving onto the Alexa app settings:
I have no “Skills & Games” in the app. I removed them all.

When I go to find the Wyze skill in the alexa app skills area, it even shows its not enabled.

If anyone is having the same ‘issue’ or just curious to know where I found the setting for this doorbell notification in the alexa app here under “Announcements.” Buried, of course. Since I have a day job, it took me all week to find it. The “Announcements” section under features is what needs to be toggled on/off for this doorbell notification to come from my echo dot - for me anyways.

The description is shrouded in mystery and vagueness.

Back to my original questions - how is this working, why? With nothing linked, that I can tell, this should not be happening. I like the feature, I just want to manage it. Like what if I wanted to have her say something other than “Someone is at the doorbell”

I have a theory that this is happening without direct consent through backend bluetooth since the DCD uses 5ghz and bluetooth now, versus the original.

Any thoughts?

[dave27]

I don’t know the answer but I do know that some devices have “native” support for Alexa, meaning a skill isn’t needed. So go into your alexa settings and look under devices and see if it has detected your Wyze doorbell?

[cdznutts]

In the alexa app, under settings, device settings, echo dot,

“Bluetooth Connections” only have 3 devices lists, they are phones that are not currently connected to it. “Not Connected.” The echo is also used to play music while cooking or doing dishes.

Staying on the same screen under “status” - Bluetooth “Disconnected”

Clicking on gear icon on the upper right of that same screen takes me to the device settings, which is where I found the “Announcements setting” through lots of trial and error. And lots of doorbell pushes. Lots of ding-dongs.

I don’t see anything in the device settings that would point to this ‘linked’ feature.

[dave27]

It wouldn’t be under the dot, it would be in your main list of devices.

[cdznutts]

Settings > device settings > header says “All devices”

Only 2 items shown (as expected) are “Echo Dot” and “Alexa on this Phone” both showing “Online”

[dave27]

Dunno then. Wonder if the wyze app is linked to the alexa app on your phone (or someone else’s) maybe?

Is it just a standard mechanical chime doorbell, or is there maybe some link between the chime and alexa (digital chime, possibly with bluetooth)?

I seem to recall seeing a setting for like “glass break detection” when setting them up for my mom so maybe it also has a “doorbell sound detection” somewhere and is simply keying off the sound of the doorbell ringing and nothing to do with any digital linkage?

Been a while since I’ve messed with the app so just throwing out ideas.

[Crease]

I clicked into this one expecting it to be similar to topics about how Video Doorbell v2 doorbell button presses aren’t triggering Alexa announcements. Nope. This is even more interesting and mysterious.

Since you mentioned getting into the Announcements setting, what happens if you toggle that off for your Echo Dot and then try to trigger it by walking in front of your Duo Cam Doorbell and/or pressing the button?

Do you get announcements for person detected and for doorbell button presses?

Just to clarify: Are you seeing the Duo Cam Doorbell as an available device in the Alexa app at all? (Instead of tapping the menu bars at the bottom, then Settings ➜ Device Settings to show All Devices, I typically just tap the next to the on the Home screen to get to the Devices screen.)(You’ve already answered this.)

What is probably the relevant Help Center article indicates that the experience you’re describing has to be set up in the Alexa app, so I’m genuinely puzzled by this and interested in what you learn.

[cdznutts]

@Crease

Do you get announcements for person detected and for doorbell button presses?

Just for doorbell button press.

I tried to record it with my phone sitting right next to the echo while I run all the way to the front door, push the doorbell button and then run all the way back. If you listen closely, you can hear me shuffling across the floor, but more importantly hear the audio of the mechanical house doorbell in the background, which is located up by the front door. It’s a bit too quick and a little off sounding which I mentioned in my other post of not having enough ‘dwell’ time. This is without the doorbell chime controller btw. Just wired up and set to mechanical chime in the app.

I got busy today out in town and didn’t get around to installing the chime controller yet. Maybe tomorrow.

@Crease

…set up in the Alexa app, so I’m genuinely puzzled by this and interested in what you learn.

You and me both. When a setting, skill, routine, feature or whatever you call it, is turned off, deactivated, or deleted by the user, in any app - it should be just that.
Nefarious or devious practices by Amazon/Alexa is definitely not beneath them and could be standard practice. Then it begs the question… what else do I not really have control of.

[carverofchoice]

@cdznutts

Just for doorbell button press.

@dave27

maybe it also has a “doorbell sound detection” somewhere and is simply keying off the sound of the doorbell ringing and nothing to do with any digital linkage?

This is my hypothesis as well. Alexa has been working hard at adding more sound detection triggers. I tried their new “Beeping Appliance” detection for a while so it would tell me when things like my Microwave, washer, dryer, etc were done.

What is your device named? Is it named “Doorbell” or is it named something slightly different? Because Alexa is saying “Someone is at the Doorbell” which it might say for any doorbell sound, but if the camera has a different name then it means it doesn’t know what the camera’s name is so it is going based on the sound and not the device.

One thing @cdznutts could check is to go into the WiFi Chime and manually trigger that to see if Alexa still does it. Then also turn off the chime, or put the doorbell in do not disturb mode and press the doorbell button with no sounds happening and see if it still does it. That would rule out that hypothesis.

Did you buy this device through Amazon in any way? For example “Buy with Prime” off the Wyze Website, or buy through amazon’s website? I ask because I know sometimes Amazon will sometimes directly link sold items to your amazon account when you buy through them. This is something worth considering.

[cdznutts]

You guys are coming up with some good theories! You’re making me work over here. I keep going back to my computer when I see a post. I immediately want to try it out. The wife is looking at me funny as I run around all over the place.

@carverofchoice

This is my hypothesis as well. Alexa has been working hard at adding more sound detection triggers.

It has to be linked somehow. Going off your idea. Here’s what I tried…

First test:
I muted the echo dot. Red ring lights up and I tested her trigger word. Ok, she’s not listening - supposedly.
I ring the doorbell. Everything triggers as it did before. Without being able to hear, supposedly, maybe her spidey sense was tingling?!

Next test:
I renamed the dcd to “The Pimpersnickle” in the Wyze app, just to make sure it’s completely different. Coincidentally, I did name it “The Doorbell”
I unplugged the wifi chime from the wall. Just to be sure.
I turned off the mechanical doorbell in the Wyze app. Not sure where to find the ‘do not disturb’ mode for the dcd.
I pressed the doorbell button.
She makes her own doorbell chime, and says the same thing: “Someone is at the doorbell” as shared with in the recording.

@carverofchoice

Did you buy this device through Amazon in any way?

Nope. Direct from Wyze. Being a new product and all. And not really available on Amazon. At least not when I looked.

@carverofchoice

Amazon will sometimes directly link sold items to your amazon account when you buy through them.

Definitely sounds like something they would do.

[Crease]

I really like these follow-up questions:

@carverofchoice

What is your device named?

@carverofchoice

Did you buy this device through Amazon in any way?

The first is something I was going to ask, as well. The second is something I hadn’t considered but seems like a really good thing to ask because of how Amazon kind of offers to pre-configure some smart devices (in a way).

I like the tests that were proposed, as well. I wonder if manually tapping the tone bars in the chime box in order to simulate a doorbell (without pressing the button) would have any effect.

@cdznutts

The wife is looking at me funny as I run around all over the place.

Did you get this mad, wide-eyed look on your face and shout, “For science?!”

Maybe I missed it, but I’m still not sure if I’ve seen an answer to my earlier question:

@Crease

Since you mentioned getting into the Announcements setting, what happens if you toggle that off for your Echo Dot and then try to trigger it by walking in front of your Duo Cam Doorbell and/or pressing the button?

I think you’ve shared adequate testing to confirm that Alexa is detecting the doorbell button press itself. Now the quest is to figure out where/how to control and/or disable it (if desired), right?

@cdznutts

It’s a bit too quick and a little off sounding which I mentioned in my other post of not having enough ‘dwell’ time.

Off topic, but I’ve been following that one, too. That’s where I think you’ll probably want to experiment some with the “Digital” setting once you have the Chime Controller installed. That might give the delay you want.

The testing, recording, and reporting you’ve done here is excellent!

[R.Good]

Have you ever turned the Alexa Skill on in the past or linked via the Wyze app even testing?

No routines built in Alexa?

You have 2 Alexa devices but it is only broadcasting on one? Is that correct?

[carverofchoice]

@R.Good

Have you ever turned the Alexa Skill on in the past or linked via the Wyze app even testing?

I was actually starting a new comment to ask this same thing. I was getting vibes of “Ghost rule” going through my head…granted this is a new device, but I wonder if something similar could be going on like a “Ghost skill” so to speak even though it’s been deleted for months or years now.

I’m at the point where I think whoever at Wyze is in charge of reaching out to their Alexa contact, needs to do exactly that and see if between the 2 of them they can figure out how this is possible. In many ways this has potential to be considered some kind of vulnerability, though I am sure it is a secure link, it is still forcing a non-consensual outside connection.

Please keep us updated cdznutts, but we’ll bring this to the attention of some employees, though I’m sure they won’t see it before Monday.

Another thing you could consider doing which I might actually do, is to send an email to security@wyze.com and explain the situation and link to this thread for more info. To explain to them why they should consider it a security issue within their purview, make sure to point out that your Wyze cam is sending information to a 3rd party without your consent, which would definitely count as a security concern in your perspective…so I am only bringing that up as an option since you already said this:

@cdznutts

I’m a little privacy sensitive

I think that allows you to qualify this as a legit security concern worth reaching out to them about. Those guys are really skilled at tracking down connection related phenomenon, so it can’t hurt to ask and try to involve them.

Honestly this situation is baffling. I could potentially see EITHER Wyze OR Alexa make the mistake of allowing this one way without proper authentication, but how on earth could BOTH possibly allow linking between each other without some kind of manual authentication? Both are supposed to require authentication and in this case it sounds like NEITHER received that permission and yet somehow both are communicating and both know the other account with the other company is your account. That sounds absurd. We’re definitely missing or misunderstanding SOMETHING.

[Crease]

Since Wyze uses AWS, is it too far-fetched to think that Alexa’s lookin’ at the Wyze server and then all, like, “Oh! I see @cdznutts has added a new doorbell! Yoink!”?

I don’t really think that’s what’s happening here, and I certainly wouldn’t expect it to happen without a user granting appropriate permissions, but I do wonder if it’s technically possible….

Slightly off topic….

@carverofchoice

whoever at Wyze is in charge of reaching out to their Alexa contact, needs to do exactly that

This for sure, and work out the issues with Video Doorbell v2 and Alexa while they’re at it.

[carverofchoice]

In theory, AWS data is encrypted both at rest and in transit.

Still, TECHNICALLY Amazon does have access to everyone’s data since they can comply with court orders to turn over all data unencrypted, but supposedly the AWS Key Management Service is regulated through controlled audited mechanisms. AND a lot of their customers use their own encryptions that Amazon doesn’t have a key to even if they get a court order.

So, yes, technically it is possible, but it’s so unlikely it’s easy to dismiss outright. Though I could see something ridiculous like having the new AI they’re training decide that it would be a useful thing to do, and using the initiative to allow it. That would be…well, a lot of conflicting adjectives come to mind… but I’m sure that’s not what happened.

[dave27]

@Crease

Since Wyze uses AWS, is it too far-fetched to think that Alexa’s lookin’ at the Wyze server

There is no way Amazon is going to risk their billions in annual cloud revenue (including a ton from the US Government to run their own dedicated cloud) over something as trivial as that.

My guess is there is going to be some light bulb that goes off here where OP realizes a totally logical/benign reason, or it turns out to be something that was enabled, got disabled, but didn’t totally clear out.

[Crease]

Oh, yeah, I’m not saying that it did happen. Other users here sometimes talk about putting on their tinfoil hats, though, so I thought I’d take a stab at it. I imagine (and hope) that the answer is much more benign.

[dave27]

From what I’ve seen, Wyze uses a 3rd party to handle their integration with Amazon, Google, and Apple, it is more likely that something got stuck in there (assuming at some point some sort of link was created during setup or toying around).

[dave27]

When you muted the dot, did you make sure ALL Alexa enabled devices are muted? If one device is set as the announcing device, others can still listen.

That could even include the alexa app on your phones if you’ve given them permission to listen for the trigger word (in which case they’re always listening).

Do you have any link set up in the Wyze app/account for Amazon? Or possibly the notification that pops up on your phone is being read by the Alexa app if you’ve given it notification access?

[cdznutts]

Good morning people! I’m glad to see I’m not the only one interested/concerned with this.
My very quiet, hard to hear buzz coming from my mechanical doorbell, that I still need to address, reminded me to check this thread. The storm in my area has passed so I’m able to hear it a bit easier - barely.

Anyways, lets get to it. Thankyou for the replies. I appreciate the attention and the shared concern. I can’t promise the same consistency once the work week rolls in though.

@R.Good

Have you ever turned the Alexa Skill on in the past or linked via the Wyze app even testing?

Yes I have. Many moons ago when I was doing testing. Skills and routines in the app was “neat” until I eventually grounded myself a bit and said that’s enough, you don’t need all that crap. It’s been so long though, I can’t remember when it was. I’d say it’s been at least a couple years. I didn’t like the feature since the wireless chime that came with the original wyze doorbell was plenty loud with its one tone.

@carverofchoice

I wonder if something similar could be going on like a “Ghost skill” so to speak even though it’s been deleted for months or years now.

After all the testing I’ve done, we’ve done, It sure does seem like that.

@carverofchoice

…forcing a non-consensual outside connection.

Now that I figured out where that setting is in the Alexa app and I can turn off the notification, this becomes the primary concern. When I found where the toggle was in the alexa app, I was hoping there would be more info on how it works, where it gets its consent from, how is it linked and to what, etc. - nope. Very vague as shown in my pictures.

@Crease

Since Wyze uses AWS…

I forgot about that. Yes. Hmm, one does wonder if some shenanigans and “agreements” are being made. As @carverofchoice said, it’s technically possible but very unlikely. I don’t understand enough of the technical side of the house to really know. In the end do we ‘really know’? This is retail and a business with the goal to make profits after all. I go back to my simple mind and ask, at what cost? Trust is easy to lose, very hard to restore.

@dave27

My guess is there is going to be some light bulb that goes off here where OP realizes a totally logical/benign reason…

I hope so. I look forward to discovering that. We’ll all learn something. I just don’t know what else to try. With the strong theory of being linked in the background without consent, A “ghost skill”, simply deleting the app won’t solve anything.

@dave27

When you muted the dot, did you make sure ALL Alexa enabled devices are muted?

I only have one echo dot in the house. The gen 3 I mentioned for this discussion. Beside my phone, it is the only ‘alexa enabled’ device in the house, via the alexa app. I don’t even have smart bulbs or any of that stuff. Wyze devices pretty much dominate my landscape here - hence my vested concern. My wife doesn’t even have alexa app installed on her phone. Only the amazon app for shopping, of course.

Say this is all working the way it’s supposed to, the linking, ‘integration’ and all. If the Alexa setting within “smart integrations” of the Wyze app is not enabled, not linked, shouldn’t that override any enabled alexa wyze linked skill, and vice versa? Both ‘link settings’ would need to be (should be?) enabled to give full/proper consent. If one link setting whether it was in Wyze app or Alexa app is disabled, the connection/link should be severed, or is that not how this works?

Being a little more ‘privacy sensitive’ - I’m not very familiar or seasoned with this linking stuff.

hopping over to other thread.