Anyone here use Z-Wave Home Automation?

Got me a Zooz Z-Hub for Z-Wave Home Automation, specifically lights, outlets, fans, etc …

Nice system that doesn’t rely on cloud service to function, it does have cloud access for off premises access. But while on property it can work without Internet which is great considering some systems if the cloud or Internet is down so is the system.

The layout of the app is under the users control and can be customized for your preferences.

Slowly doing the same with my cams and having both cloud and local control and storage.

Uses tons less data than cloud based like Wyze.

Being with somewhat limited bandwidth due to my forest location this is the better way to go.

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Very good, I like the way you’re proactively tackling your problems, well done young man, capital! :+1:

(I thought I had zwave on my meshie but it turns out to be zigbee which I don’t use but it makes for another fine radio to be blasted with in the meantime.)

I’m gonna miss you when you go, forest kitty’s father!, you should always keep one Wyze cam working so you can still post on the forum!

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I use this with Home Assistant for z-wave AND zigbee:

I don’t plan to use a lot of Z-Wave devices because they’re needlessly expensive and over-regulated pay to play, but I do plan to get the z wave controller that the open home foundation is planning to launch later this year for the few Z-Wave devices I’ll end up getting because sometimes companies only make a device with Z-Wave and don’t have the option of alternatives.

I think in general, in the long term, I will give preference to thread, then zigbee, then some other things after that, including Z-Wave. So I’m not opposed to z-wave by any means, but I’ve been holding off getting any until until the open home foundation launches their official controller.

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Pay to play?

There is no fee for the cloud and obviously not for local access. The only Pay was buying the hub. Z-Hub has free access over the Internet.

As far as the price of equipment, usually higher quality products demand more money but I still consider the prices of their products affordable and not expensive.

For example light switches, plugs, and plug in devices are between $25-40 and Wyze is not that much cheaper…

The “regulation” you refer to actually makes Z-Wave devices far more dependable as there are set standards for those wanting to manufacturer and sell the Z-Wave devices which insures compatibility between devices and hubs.

I would much rather have my smart home devices on their own independent radio network that is not on WiFi, the Z-Wave 908 MHz Mesh network is a much better solution.

Sorry for any misunderstanding. Z-wave has high licensing fees and IMO excessive certification process compared to other options (Zigbee and Matter both have this, but theirs are superior implementations IMO, and Zigbee is an open standard with no licensing fees which I’m more supportive of). Some people like this about Z-Wave though, I’m just saying that I don’t. I prefer a more open source standard instead. The way Z-Wave does things causes a barrier to smaller companies, needlessly inflates the product cost, limits innovation and competition, and are often less likely to work seamlessly with devices using other protocols without additional bridging hardware (Matter handles this a lot better).

Additionally, Z-Wave 's nice limit, bandwidth and speed are all significantly worse than other options like Zigbee, thread, etc., which okay for some low throughput devices, but definitely not for anything requiring high throughput.

I just didn’t like the centralized control on principle being a barrier to more open and flexible development.

This is surprisingly one of the bigger criticisms of z wave, which I wouldn’t have thought. While Z-Wave has good range within a single building, it can struggle with larger properties or outdoor areas. Additionally, the signal can apparently be extra affected by physical obstructions like walls and floors. I personally thought it would do better with them.

Anyway, don’t misunderstand. As I said, I plan to get some myself and get a Z-Wave controller when he open home foundation launches theirs. I was mostly explaining why I prefer other options like thread and zigbee first. But part of it is based on what I feel deserves support philosophically,. I’m by no means trying to tell anyone to never use Z-Wave. I’m just more of a thread and zigbee guy who will use Z-Wave as a secondary (non-Primary) network. Not that I will never use it. I believe in redundancy anyway. Z wave is great for reliability! :+1: I agree with that. And it can be great for people who live in crowded areas with oversaturated 2.4ghz such as an apartment complex. I’d highly consider it in that situation too.

I only have one zigbee device and not likely to buy another since range is very limited. My understanding is that they can interfere with WiFi since they use some of the same frequencies. Z-wave range is good since each device is a repeater and creates a much larger coverage area. I have multiple light switches, dimmers and outlets that work great with HA.

If I need better range I use YoLink with LORA. They have a range of 1/4 mile. I use their switches, power strips, motion/contact sensors, alarms sirens, etc. all around my house, inside and out.

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With the new long range Z-Wave the distance issue is gone…

And as far as being a customer why would the licensing fee and certification matter to anyone except the manufacturer??? Who you working for…:rofl: I have always suspected…:joy::rofl::joy::rofl:

Network congestion is not a worry for control devices on the Z-Wave network, what kind of congestion are light switches, power plugs, etc… going to cause? Really?

I can observe the Z-Wave comms through the hub and they are very boring and not in anyway going to congest a network unless you have hundreds of devices if not more… :rofl::joy::rofl::joy:

Z-Wave and Z-Hub so far are good systems, just not your flavor of Kool aid :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.,… But I’m still testing it, so I reserve the right to change my opinion :grin:

There is a lot to love about LoRa! It can go up to 9 miles and uses low power for great battery life, and it supports lots of devices, is low cost and operates on an unlicensed band. All awesome pluses. Their certification/licensing costs are more reasonable than Z-Wave too. I think I prefer LoRaWAN to Z-Wave overall. It does still suffer from low data throughput and high latency, but it’s awesome for certain use cases like contact sensors for sure. :+1:

Definitely a hypothetical downside of Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Zigbee, Thread, microwaves, baby monitors, etc. Though, I have yet to have such a problem. I have got to have well over 200 devices (maybe up to 300) using 2.4GHz at my house, not counting my neighbors signals that overlap onto my property and I still don’t have any connectivity issues :man_shrugging: so, I suspect it must take an insanely ridiculous number of devices for signal interference to really be a big issue on that frequency. The main reason this really isn’t as big of an issue as most people make it out to be, is because Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, zigbee and thread are all set up to do frequency. Hopping to different channels to make sure there isn’t signal interference. Most good systems do this automatically. If someone has a zigbee coordinator that doesn’t do this or a Wi-Fi router that doesn’t do this or Bluetooth that doesn’t do this, that is their main problem. They almost surely just have a crappy system that doesn’t manage it very well. I have hundreds of devices crammed into less than 3000sqft and still don’t have that issue. :man_shrugging:

I do agree that zigbee has more limited range than I would prefer though, and I agree that Z-Wave is usually more reliable and stable. :+1:

That’s good to hear :+1: I will take that into account when I buy my Z-Wave controller around Black Friday. I’m Not sure how big your property is but you might also consider looking into LoRa like @WildBill was suggesting. I know some of them can go up to 9 mi in rural areas. That might suit your situation really well for certain things.

For one thing, it jacks up prices for something needlessly when I can get the same item using a Zigbee card instead for a lot cheaper. I have often seen the exact same item from a company, where they will offer it with one or the other protocol and the price differences can be fairly significant in certain cases, particularly for smaller devices like a contact sensor, though it may not matter so much for something bigger and more expensive like a washer and dryer. It partially depends on the use-case.

Another risk is what happens when the company stops selling the old deprecated model device and starts selling a new model If they don’t keep paying the ongoing licensing costs for all their past models, they lose official support, and the devices will become inoperable with future updates to the Z-Wave protocol. Even DIY’ers can’t really fix that since it’s all proprietary. But if a company DOES keep paying the ongoing licensing fees for old deprecated models they no longer sell, then they will continue to compound more and more financial liabilities. These can add up and put them in a tough spot where lots of old devices are costing them a lot of money, while not bringing them in any more income to offset those costs. They’re just pure losses. So they will have to subsidize those losses somewhere else, usually making their future products more of a rip off to pay for their costs for other things that don’t even benefit them anymore and are ongoing liabilities.

All of that affects the consumer, and can be a concerning reliability concern in the long run. This is part of what I am talking about when I say pay to play licensing and certification requirements can be a big downside, risk, etc. I much more strongly support opensource as an ideal, such as just making things use the Open Home Foundation (Home Assistant) Natively at the highest level of integration (ie: Platinum quality integration that is completely asynchronous and can also work locally and function without relying on external servers or requiring ongoing pay to play certification/licensing). But that’s just the high ideal PREFERENCE I believe in when possible. It is not the sole consideration I go by as I have mentioned many times here and elsewhere. I am just trying to explain my reasoning for why I give a slight preference to other options over ongoing pay to play certifications and how they can and do affect consumers (directly and indirectly) in the long run by leaving a risk to the consumer that the device may eventually not be compatible with Z-Wave in the future when/if a company goes out of business or decides the yearly fees aren’t worth paying for a device that they no longer earn income on. I much prefer more open options that are more guaranteed for the long term, and more affordable up front too. Double bonus.

It’s no secret. I own my own business and only work for myself. I choose my own clients (none of which are currently in the technology or smart home industry at all), and work on my own time. Currently, I mostly do bookkeeping, though I have investments in other companies. :man_shrugging: I have no investments in Zigbee, Thread, LoRa, etc. Closest related investment would be that within the last couple of weeks I came to own a percentage in a private mobile phone provider, though that has no influence over any of my opinions related to Zigbee, Thread, Z-Wave, Bluetooth, LoRa, etc.

However, if any of the above protocols were going to pay me as is being inferred, then it would be one of the proprietary pay to play groups like Z-Wave, and I have mostly been advocating for the more affordable and open and free standards with long term viability. That should demonstrably indicate that I get no benefit from those opinions. I get nothing from anyone making any choice (Zigbee, Thread, Z-Wave, LoRa, etc)…other than me sharing with other people in general why I think certain standards are better than others and hope more people continue to lean toward open standards as their primary because I think it’s better for society overall. That’s what I get out of it. :man_shrugging: It does not directly affect me if someone has a different opinion, and nobody is paying me for my opinions.

Even as a Wyze volunteer, Wyze has not asked me defend them or say positive things about them. On the contrary, I was told specifically by Wyze that I may continue to have and give my own personal opinions about Wyze, including criticism where I feel it is warranted, and I have done so plenty of times. One of my most famous instances of this was this post related to “Wyze has lost it’s way” which currently has 49 likes as of this writing. More recent examples include me chastizing Wyze for paywalling the local/Edge AI on the new V4 cam, not fixing the cooldown on the WCO’s in almost 10 months now, and more. I actually have had Wyze founders ask me to apply for a job, but I politely declined. Truth is that Wyze couldn’t afford me, and they would have to pay me something ridiculous like high MULTI-6-figures per year for me to even consider going to work for them instead of doing what I do, and they would be crazy to pay me that much instead of hire multiple others for cheaper. I would tell them up front that they were making a horrible mistake hiring me (not that I wouldn’t do a great job, it’s just not a wise financial decision IMO compared to alternatives). So no, I don’t work for them either and have declined to even apply, and they do not ask me to change my opinions, defend them, or be anything other than myself in using my knowledge about them to courteously help other users on here as I enjoy doing and plan to continue doing.

My opinions are solely my own. Nobody has ever paid me a salary and directed me to post anything I have said on here or elsewhere.

I’m sure you were joking, but I might as well clarify anyway. I quite literally only work for myself. :wink: I do not have a “boss”…other than my wife and my bossy little toddlers I have a soft spot for. :sweat_smile:

I agree, very stable and reliable as I have said in almost every post in this thread so far.

Now you’re getting it! :slight_smile: But I am not totally opposed to them either. I plan to get one this fall. There are actually a couple of Z-Wave devices I really want that aren’t available with any other protocol. I also think Z-Wave is pretty good for really expensive devices like large Smart Appliances. I think that’s a fantastic use-case for it. :+1:

Absolutely, my long-time forum discussion acquaintance, as do I. Who knows, when I get mine later this fall, I may fall in love with it. :joy: It might leave a slightly bad taste in my mouth in the same way that Matter does, but I still think Matter is a wonder step in the right direction despite it also being pay to play in the same way Z-Wave is. I still think direct Open Source compatibility with something like Home Assistant is the best way for any company to go, but second best is Matter even though it’s got the same Pay to Play issues as Z-Wave.

I would actually enjoy hearing more about your experience with Z-Wave over the coming months.

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Who let these adults into the room? :face_with_monocle:

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BTW, didn’t you lance an accounting boil for them a while back? For actual money, I mean? :grin:

Fun fact!

Discourse forum platform reply box maximum character count is 150K!

A lot! :slight_smile:

Nope. I haven’t done anything for Wyze outside of this maven stuff. No employment, nor contract/freelance work, etc. I’ve never seen their accounting/books.

I am not accepting new clients either, though I’ll let my current ones expand as they’ve doubled my work this year already and doubled it last year too. I had a few more in the last year ask me to take them on, help them, as they started up their businesses, and I declined. I’m quite satisfied with my situation and may possibly [mostly] retire sometime within the next 1-5 years. I just barely hired someone to take over most of my “busy work” so I can focus on other things.

But anyway, just wanted to clarify your insinuation that, no, I did not ever help Wyze with their accounting, nor did I ever do any kind of contact work with them. I don’t ever intend to either. I’m happy as a volunteer maven that helps out when I feel like it and able to have my own opinions because I don’t represent them, and try to make that clear occasionally.

I did once get invited to a Wyze party (along with the other volunteers) to celebrate their 5 year anniversary and we got to meet the Wyze founders and many other employees. That was a treat meeting meeting of them.

I, and @cyberdog_17 also got to have a video call with Dave to discuss some of the things we brought up in that “Wyze has lost it’s way” post I linked to above, and Dave did share some interesting things with me/us, but we were not paid anything for that.

I think the current relationship that wyze and I have is adequately mutually beneficial in a way we both appreciate. I was basically doing all the same stuff before I was a maven anyway… That’s pretty much why they picked me. I was already using my experience to help people and keep the forum clean from spam, etc.

insinuation:

To express or otherwise convey (a thought, for example) in an indirect or insidious way. synonym: suggest

…often used derogatorily.

I apologize. I was memory-certain but apparently wrong. Did they ask you to do work for them of that type and you turned it down? Or did I just totally misremember this thing?

:point_up: Congratulations, man! Sincerely. :tada:

/edit

Totally misremembered it, apparently. Sorry.

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No worries buddy. You may be remembering other things like me saying I’ve been asked to apply or maybe I’ve [joked]v about what I would tell them IF they ever paid me as consultant or something. That would totally make sense as I do say such things sometimes. That would be easy to remember as me saying I actually did that, when I was saying a hypothetical. No big deal.

Also, my apologies for saying insinuate instead of another word as it has negative connotations/implications (as you quoted it’s often used derogatorily and is not what I meant to convey as it seems you were concerned enough to apologize. No apology needed. I am not offended at all, and meant it as a synonym sure implied or something less dramatic. I just wanted to clarify so other readers of the forum wouldn’t think I do or have worked for Wyze in some way. I really like the fact that I have not done so and that I am allowed to criticize, etc where I feel it is legitimately deserved, and don’t have an obligation to be a yes man as some people tend to think.

I do love Wyze for the most part, but that is not because I get a paycheck from them as some think. I like their mission and published values and the employees I know. I like them over most of their competitors for many reasons.

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Careless comprehension, probably. Amphibian frain bart. :slight_smile:

You’re a good man, carver the bear. Keep your ursine chin up, the berries are just 'round the bend. :wink:

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Well Z-box hub is being returned, firmware bugs and other issues…

Habitat C8 Pro will be next candidate for me to try on my existing Z-wave network. The Hubitat C8 also supports Zigbee and more, so why not …

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I’m interested in learning about your experience with the Hubitat. I’ve done a little reading about those.

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I have a Hubitat Elevation as well. I mostly disconnected it after the Home Assistant Green option came out because I think Home Assistant is much more powerful with a lot more options, but hubitat is also pretty good for doing things locally.

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