Thief smashing Wyze Monitoring base station? Turn of sound to prevent finding it?

I’d prefer they don’t include battery backup for a modem/router with this product because it would add a significant price increase. Most Battery backup devices cost at least $40 for the most affordable ones and a lot of people don’t need/want one and it would just force unnecessary expense to all the people who wouldn’t want it, making this product a sort of “bloatware” instead of reasonably priced. (As mentioned, the hub itself does have it’s own battery backup, so here I am just talking about a battery backup solution for a home’s modem & router…which anyone can easily do themselves).

It’s pretty easy to just buy our own APC Back-UPS or Cyberpower or whatever that has battery backup as a surge protector. I got a couple of affordable battery backups last year during Black Friday deals and I plug my modem and router into it, so my internet continues to work even if the power dies. Anyone else can do the same if this is a concern to them. Black Friday is right around the corner so several will be on sale and thus anyone can get this solution themselves.

Additionally, anyone who wants cellular backup can do something similar…rig their own solution that automatically switches on cellular if the modem/router ever disconnects.

Even though the research shows very few people want or use cellular backup or modem battery power backup (compared to the majority who do not), I still support Wyze developing and providing cellular backup as an in-house option, but I would again prefer that option not be forced on the majority of people who do not want and would not use it, but should instead be a separate set of hardware for those who do want/use it. That way they can continue to provide the current hardware as affordably as possible while still providing the desired solutions for those who do want more.

I, and others have brought this issue up with Wyze and they even answered in a Wyze AMA saying they are looking into it, but making no promises yet.

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Agreed heartily. Impractical to expect Wyze to provide a free UPS for other manufacturers’ modems/routers. The additional weight alone (even the small ones are HEAVY) would cause yet another round of shipping cost complaints. With so many people eschewing landlines I agree cell connectivity is the obvious missing piece.

Honestly, I would recommend that people instead look into something better than Cellular backup such as HELIUM backup.

Helium is a global, distributed network of hotspots that create public, long-range wireless coverage for LoRaWAN-enabled IoT devices

LoRaWAN is a Low Power, Wide Area (LPWA) networking protocol designed to wirelessly connect IoT devices to the internet. It is an alternative to cellular technology (Cat-M and NB-IoT). It is gaining traction in agricultural, industrial, and other commercial IoT applications.

It’s spreading fast. Here’s a coverage map (after only 1 year so far):

Basically you could set up a router to primarily use your home modem, and if that stops functioning regularly (then you probably have Comcast…haha j/k), then some routers could just relay the internet from a Helium Hotspot as backup.

I think that’s a TON better (and cheaper) than Cellular backup if you have Helium hotspots in your area, and if you don’t, you will soon. It’s spreading like crazy and IOT devices are really starting support it. Wyze might even be able to build in support for it with some of their devices. I’d prefer this over cellular in the long run for IOT device stuff.

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Never heard of it. Interesting but at first glance it sounds extraordinarily scammy. The big question, local peer hopping aside, is where is this data hitting the Internet?? As far as I can tell it’s still reliant on the conventional ISP connection at each home. So if your neighbors are on the same monopoly / duopoly ISP that you are, when there’s an outage you’re still screwed. I guess it would handle a cut to your own house’s cable line though. Just seems to me a cellular connection is WAY more robust.

Again, I never heard of this until two minutes ago but check out this scary buzzword soup of false promises and scheming:

With Helium’s open source blockchain technology, individuals are incentivized to deploy Helium Hotspots, which simultaneously mine cryptocurrency and provide LoRaWAN network coverage for hundreds of square miles. These hardware devices enable anyone to own and operate a wireless network for their IoT applications.

Users earn HNT, a new cryptocurrency, for providing and validating wireless coverage when devices on the network connect to the Internet through Hotspots. The Hotspot serves as both the backbone of the network and as a node for the Helium Blockchain which powers the reward system. Since Semtech and Helium announced collaboration, more than 10,000 Helium Hotspots have been sold, facilitating the Helium Network’s rapid growth.

Blockchain? Really? Really?

After the research I’ve done and talking to people I know who actually use it, I actually like & support it. I think it has a lot of potential. Time will tell…but I like that it is a transparent way to do long-range IOT (like smart pet tags) without being reliant on a platform like Alexa sidewalk.

Yes, this true.

This could be possible in theory. In practice, there are quickly becoming more than a single Helium hotspot per area especially with the large antennas being used. Also, duopolies are quickly diminishing as nearly everyone is gaining access to the choice of: Cable; Phone Company; Other Fiber (what I have which is owned by the city and not either greedy utility group); T-Mobile 5G (or other phone companies that are launching their own 5G internet routers); Starlink; Other Satellite; Other wireless like WiMax, etc.

Duopolies are diminishing quickly…and with multiple Helium hotspots overlapping, it is fairly likely that even if one ISP goes down, one of the others will have a different one that will connect. I foresee many choices being possible in the near future and it shouldn’t be hard to configure to look for one that has an active connection.

And if you get someone to do it with T-Mobile hotspot, then you can have it set up exactly the same thing as cellular backup without having to pay the monthly cost for it at all. That’s a total win-win. It also wouldn’t be hard to configure the router to simply run it through a VPN if one is concerned in any way.

Yes, this a good point, and one of the main reasons people want a backup option anyway.

Anyway, I like the IDEA behind it better than something like Amazon Sidewalk scooping up all that IOT data for themselves.

I so far haven’t found anything concerning about it, and like I said, I know guys who actually use it, so it seems pretty legit so far.

A lot of cryptocurrencies are fairly scammy, but blockchain in and of itself is pretty amazing with some awesome potential that is going to make a lot more decentralization possible (which I support) with incentives and security that doesn’t require “trust”…so blockchain itself doesn’t concern me (quite the opposite actually), but one does need to read the details and verify it’s not one of the rampant scams going around while the technology is basically in the “Wild West” for now.

I do believe this could be a really viable option for things like this.

Another option is to do something similar to what I currently do with my laptop. I connect my laptop by ethernet to one internet source and by WiFi to a different one. If one connection goes down, I don’t lose internet. It primarily goes off my main internet connection, but if that one isn’t responding, it simply uses the other. I expect that similar dual connections will become more common even with connecting to 2 wireless sources. I read that some routers will act this way with routing more than 1 internet source as a redundancy. We’re not at the point of wide adoption for that yet, but I bet it is coming, and I anticipate that it will make “cellular backup” fairly unnecessary.

Still, Wyze would be wise to cater toward the current strong expectations of the market and since a lot of people feel like they want cellular backup, they will sell several extra units if they provide that option. And in addition they can offer a subscription for it wherein they make a little extra profit too…so from a business perspective I would recommend it, but from a consumer perspective I would look at some better alternatives especially since a determined burglar can simply bring a cheap signal jammer and jam both WiFi and Cellular signals, break-in and leave (therefore making the backup pointless anyway). Even without jammers, if they run in, grab something and run out quickly (as most do), police will never get there in time anyway. So for the most part, statistically it is primarily a feel good item, rather than a truly practical one…but feeling better is usually worth the money.

I feel like the folks in this thread are wanting their cake and to eat too…

Meaning… you are buying into a smart home/Home Security eco-system that is for the budget-minded consumer. It is feature-rich but certainly can’t compete with the high-end systems that cost 2-3x more…and higher! And the fact of the matter is you can’t account for every eventuality.

It seems like if something is SO important that you need a backup for every backup… 99.999% uptime/redundancy… well… get ready to pay for it. It is not cheap to pay for disaster recovery or business continuity (or home continuity) that just sits there idle…(2nd internet line/cell, power redundancies, etc). Besides, how many people do you know that have this level of redundancy in a security system??? These are 1% issues. Not used by anyone in normal circumstances.

In information technology, the more 9’s you want after the decimal … the more money it costs.

I think if you are afraid of your internet getting cut… then you should go outside and do an assessment on your property and find out why your internet is exposed so easily that a pair of $1 wire cutters undermines your whole operation? If you are concerned about it… don’t blame Wyze… maybe fortify the holes in your defenses? Cover up that exposed cable. Put a camera on your internet drop to your house? Also, build a moat… they are really effective. You don’t even have to put alligators in it. People generally don’t want to get wet at night.

The person who suggested an APC UPS… that is your answer. Put your cable modem, router, and any devices you want to stay up for 30 minutes or more on that.

I think the morale of the story is that 98% of people aren’t going any further than a package from Wyze, or SimpliSafe will provide for them. They just want something that covers most circumstances. And they don’t want to break the bank doing it. Don’t forget, the median income in the US is $31,000… so most of us won’t be doing anything crazy at home if it costs too much.

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It’s pretty much The American Way.

Are you against The American Way?   :wink:

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Wow…

First off, the reason people deploy security systems is to try and account for every eventuality. You’re taking things to the absolute extreme to make a point…it doesn’t always need to be on the fringes to accommodate a simple solution.

A small battery backup, like - phone charger style - would suffice. Your statements are steeped in extremis. Ludicrous. The entire point I was trying to make was that if Wyze can account for low cost, easy to deploy solutions and have before - maintaining price and fucntion should’ve been their focus here as well. They missed. You can’t deny that if I need to supplement something I bought with something else, the solutions based model fails and this approach for HMS needs a refresh.

You missed my point entirely. Hope you didn’t spend too much time typing that response out.

To be universally compatible, any modem/gateway UPS product would need to provide AC power. That isn’t going to make for an inexpensive device. I have a couple of APC units that use a lithium ion battery pack, and while smaller than the typical unit that uses a sealed lead-acid battery, they still aren’t that small (about the size of a hardback book), and even on sale back in 2017, it cost around $40.

It also penalizes those who already have a power backup solution in place (such as the UPS I and many others have, or the standby generator an older friend of mine has).

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That’s a telling statement from Wyze - “Cellular backup is something costly but scarcely used, so we decided not to include it”. Tells me all I need to know about using Wyze for a security system - it was designed to a cost point, not to a functional requirement. The Glock beside my bed at night is expensive and scarcely used as well. As are the trips to the gun range, the practice ammunition and CCW certification. If all you want is something to wake you up at night when someone breaks in, the Wyze system will (probably) do the job. If you have something in your house valuable enough to want a real security system that will deter all but the most determined thieves it’s going to cost more money. Depending on what you’re trying to protect, it might cost a lot more money. It all depends on your individual needs, but don’t delude yourself into thinking you can get a commercial grade security system for a couple hundred bucks.

Yup, exactly, that’s what I was trying to get across earlier. Shipping weight alone becomes a minor issue too. A USB charged 10,000 mah battery is not an AC UPS, even if the actual power requirements are small. (You could get away with it if you shipped 10 or 20 different DC plugs and automatically and correctly determined power and polarity for every possible modem/router but that’s an obvious nightmare. It is NOT going to happen, @theruined , from Wyze or from any vendor, ever.)

As to blockchain, it does NOT solve any problems. Its only real feature is a public audit log… But since every service you’d want to use - including “Helium” whatever that is - already requires lots of centralization anyway, a public audit log on their web server is fine, simple, and doesn’t incur thousands of megawatts of completely wasted electric power "mining* useless cryptocurrency. Sorry carver but it still smells like a scam to me. Time will tell.

Neglecting the fact it could very well be an add-on if the user so desires…doesn’t have to be a part of the primary package, thus, the price point remains untouched and the solution becomes more versatile for those not as prepared as yourself.

I have an APC as well, just in a different part of the house and on my server side. Don’t much care for my internet going down due to an outage…but now I’ll consider it since it’s more critical to have it up.

Okay but I think you are still missing my point. Tried to be clear. Have a good weekend. :slight_smile:

If you are fine with it being an option, then why is it so important Wyze specifically offers it?

Back in the day when alarm systems only connected to standard phone lines, I don’t recall alarm companies recommending or even offering the installation of armored conduits for phone lines to prevent a thief from cutting those.

In some areas of the country, people have more of a problem with their internet going down from time to time than their power going out, and a UPS isn’t going to address that issue.

The closer one approaches a “covers all the contingencies” solution, the more it is going to cost, and the closer one gets the more the cost is going to escalate in comparison to the benefit.

A home security system may deter most people from breaking in, but it isn’t going to stop anyone that is determined.

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Not sure why you’re arguing the point. If Cameras can be simply wired in then why offer a wireless option with battery pack? If Tstat installers can easily add a C-wire, but they’re prefer not to for ease on installation, then why offer an adapter?

It’s because it’s simpler to not to have to think about it and offers a solution for the less tech savvy or turnkey seekers…um…gosh, nevermind.

You’re argument is valid, yes it adds a cost, but it’s not far fetched to say they could - and in most respects - should offer a redundant backup to a security system.

In fact, that’s why Cam+ has become so advanced in its offerings…simple redundancy. It just wasn’t their priority and wasn’t offered.

Hopefully they’ll offer something like this in the near future.

Is the C-wire adapter something that is available from multiple locations, including a local big box store, like a UPS is? If not, you have your answer why it is offered as an option.

I’ll also note that a lot of people have VoIP phone service with their cable internet (thanks to triple play bundles), and those are required to have battery backup already in most locations to provide emergency phone service after a power outage. That backup also keeps the internet working, as the VoIP gateway is part of the cable modem (and these days it also typically includes WiFi).

For the record, Wyze doesn’t offer a “wireless option with a battery pack” for the cameras. They sell a completely different model camera, which has the battery integrated and has to use a different method of motion detection to make it practical. If one wants to add battery backup to their regular Wyze cameras, they have to go 3rd party.

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C-wire is at the biggest of box stores…it’s just a wire.

But ok. I get ya. Good chat.

I’m taking it to the extreme?

You just said people install security systems to account for “every” eventuality? Oh really???

Do you have breakage alarms on every window? Did you install that moat I mentioned? Unless you have infrared cameras looking for heat signatures… then I just don’t believe you are really serious about home protection? Personally, I just bought a guard house from Amazon that I’m going to staff with a security guard… his name will be Gus, and he will only carry a baton and whistle.

People purchase insurance, security systems, cars, homes, all based on the level of comfort and security they can “afford”, not the level of feature they really want (this is where my moat & Gus comes into my design). I can’t afford Gus or the moat yet because my [Mod Edit] Earlcoin hasn’t mooned 10000x yet…

Have you ever considered the R & D required to integrate a cell backup into this solution? For the small % of the people that would honestly use it? Their cameras and stuff would be a LOT more expensive if they tried to accommodate that. So, instead, make it more reasonable to the general consumer and cover many of the bases in Home Security. And don’t make me pay 10% more on your products and services because you spent useless R & D money on a feature nobody uses.

Again I say, if someone needs a fortress of security… they aren’t coming to Wyze to do it because they have money and can pay for the high end stuff where the company put the extra 5% of R & D into the product features (so it costs more) and also have every type of protection possible in their very expensive houses. Including generators on their house, cell plans as backup, 2 internet plans, and I’m assuming a wall and security gate on the property.

Wyze seems to be trying to do their best to split technology and cost… and make great products with those 2 things in mind… which is VERY hard to do. You will never satisfy everyone. There’s always a complainer that says… “What about this???”

I say… “Look at what this does for the price!!!”

<drops mic, deletes internet>

-Earl

MOD NOTE: Post edited to conform to the Community Guidelines.

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This topic was squeaky. It needed some Earl.

Crude.