I'm done with this BS

[CanAmSteve]

Some good advice here. I have almost 20 Wyze cameras at four locations on three continents, so it is a considerable inconvenience if anything needs onsite intervention. I have everything from old PanCams, Outdoor cameras (the most problematic) V1/2/3 and one Battery Cam Pro

Over the years I have used many IP cameras. BITD, these required much trial and error to set up using a borrowed PC (since I use Macs) and frequently only lasted a few years if that. Wyze cameras are a huge improvement, but there can still be problems. One is the well-known (but poorly notified by Wyze) issue of only connecting to a 2.4GHz network. Especially when Google mesh routers use the same name for both speeds and cannot be modified (the work-around is to power up the camera for setup at a distance from the router/node, so it defaults to 2.4). I also find Wyze cameras seem to connect fine for setup but then drop off the network if anything is marginal. I have one camera that only connects randomly despite the camera and wifi router being constant. I assume some local interference?

But once setup properly, my Wyze cameras are reliable. Cheap routers (like ADSL modems provided by ISPs) and not so reliable. I switched to Billion ADSL router/modems and never had an issue. Now two of my locations are on fiber (ISP routers) one on 5G and the other on cable. So far, so good. But fiber is relatively new and connections proprietary, so we will see what the MTBF is for these boxes

A couple of ideas - I use mechanical “clock” timers to reboot my routers once a day I prefer them to digital timers ar smart switches - the digital timers I have used are harder to set up and can be confused by power outages. Smart switches require the network to be functional, so using them on the router would be OK for off, but not on I also run all my routers off UPS units

I wish Wyze could engineer in a the ability to fall back to another connection method. Obviously it would require a second setup, but having one (say) wifi running off a fiber network and another off 5G would allow the camera/device to pick the best connection. My phone does this automatically

Finally, choose a backup camera system. I have used both Kasa and Blink with good results. Also of course, never, ever update firmware on cameras that you can’t put your hand on. I believe only once has Wyze forced an update on my cameras remotely, and all remained connected, but ideally that should never happen. Right?

[SlabSlayer]

@CanAmSteve

One is the well-known (but poorly notified by Wyze) issue of only connecting to a 2.4GHz network. Especially when Google mesh routers use the same name for both speeds and cannot be modified

Do the Google Mesh Routers broadcast the two networks seperately under the same name or just one broadcast network? I have always used a single SSID multi-band network with my phone on 5GHz and have never had a problem installing the cams to the 2.4GHz.

[CanAmSteve]

As I understand it, the issue is the camera connecting to the 5GHz signal with no way to force it to 2.4GHz. Google offers no way to give the two different names, not even the same SSID 2.4/5GHz. It “does it for you” - one of those “make it simple” choices that can create issues. Wyze cameras (up to the most recent at least) will only connect to 2.4GHz to complete setup. So you can get most of the way through and then have a fail with very poor troubleshooting info IMO. Given the prevalence of 5GHz and Google equipment, this seems a bit cruel.

[SlabSlayer]

@CanAmSteve

the issue is the camera connecting to the 5GHz signal with no way to force it to 2.4GHz

Impossible. The Cam only has a 2.4GHz radio on it. It has no way to receive or transmit on any RF. The laws of physics can’t be rewritten.

The issue is created when the phone is not on the 2.4GHz. Usually when there are two different SSID and the phone isn’t able to provide the correct network credentials to the cam and server for it to navigate the connection because the two networks are seperate with seperate SSID and PW. However, when on a single SSID network, this isn’t an issue since the login credentials are identical.

[StevenA]

I believe the Battery Cam Pro can also do 5Ghz.

Wyze Battery Cam Pro

[CanAmSteve]

I’m probably not expressing it correctly. With the Google mesh, both 2.4 and 5GHz have the same name, password, etc. Unlike my other routers, where is may say “Netlink ABC123 2,4” and then show a separate 5GHz. Google doesn’t do this - you only see one.

There’s no distinction, so the Wyze camera tries to connect to 5GHz (in some situations) and obviously fails. The phone app, of course, has no such issues. So you get most of the way through setup but then it fails when it tries to connect directly. Well-known and well-documented Google/Wyze issue if you search - I just think Wyze should make it much more obvious that the cameras work on 2.4 ONLY

[SlabSlayer]

As can the Doorbell Pro and the Floodlight Pro.

[SlabSlayer]

@CanAmSteve

With the Google mesh, both 2.4 and 5GHz have the same name, password, etc. Unlike my other routers, where is may say “Netlink ABC123 2,4” and then show a separate 5GHz. Google doesn’t do this - you only see one.

As is the case with any Single SSID mixed band network. I have run them on TP-Link and Wyze networks. My current tri-band network broadcasts only one single SSID. When logging in, the router is responsible for determining the best band to use for speed and bandwith based on the signal from the device if it is multi-band capable. If it is only single band capable, the router is forced to use that band as it gets no packet confirmation on the other bands.

@CanAmSteve

so the Wyze camera tries to connect to 5GHz

No. This is physically impossible for most Wyze cams that are 2.4GHz only. The cam cannot detect, receive, or send data on any band except the 2.4GHz RF. You can’t get FM Radio on your AM transistor. Radio waves don’t work that way.

The problem isn’t with the cam, the problem is with the Google router not allowing the phone, which is operating on the 5GHz network, to communicate with the cam with the same credentials on the 2.4GHz network. When that router broadcasts only one SSID, it maintains a seperate subnet IP scheme for each of the bands, thereby creating only the illusion of a merged, multiband network. That is why the phone has to be logged into the 2.4GHz band to complete the setup… either by forcing a downgrade by distance or by disabling the 5GHz temporarily.

The Mesh networks I have employed, unlike the Google Router, operate a true merged multiband network on the single SSID and IP Scheme.

[CanAmSteve]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. The problem is still (IMO) Wyze failing to highlight the potential issue. Google is considerably bigger than Wyze, so many customers will possibly run into this problem. Seems worth highlighting - esp with new bands coming as well. I understand the camera does not and cannot connect to 5GHz, but it does appear to “try” when it fails

[SlabSlayer]

@CanAmSteve

but it {cam} does appear to “try” when it fails

No, it doesn’t “appear” to be connecting to the 5GHz network. It tries to connect to the 2.4GHz network because that is the only band it is capable of receiving and transmitting on but the faulty router with cheap programming isn’t allowing it because the subnet of the Phone doesn’t match even though the credentials do.

@CanAmSteve

The problem is still (IMO) Wyze failing to highlight the potential issue

Wyze Cam V2 Specifications page:

Wyze Cam V3 Specifications page:

Wyze Cam Pan V2 Specifications page:

Wyze Cam Pan V3 Specifications page:

Wyze Cam OG Specifications page:

Wyze Video Doorbell Specifications page:

From the Basic Troubleshooting Guide within the Wyze Knowledge Articles for every single-band Cam:

Placing the responsibility on Wyze to advertise that some routers, like Google’s, are incapable of properly administering a single SSID multi-band network is an unreasonable expectation. If Google would even listen, that is where this issue needs to be aired.

[nhlter]

Y’all are talking about a technology called “Smart Connect”, and it is one of the most diabolical things ever invented for the network ecosystem for those not in the know under the guise of making a network simpler when it does anything but.

Smart Connect despite the name can be quite dumb depending on the particular implementation and environment. These are the two main variables for SC, as for implementation, it can vary drastically from router to router both in methods and quality and is not necessarily related to price or perceived quality of brand.

The second main variable is network environment which is a variable that radically changes from case to case due to a host of conditions, such as materials of the building to number and type of devices or radio noise and everything in between.

The point being is that SC is not a one size fits all assuming it is implemented well and more likely than not requires tuning of advanced features (assuming said advanced features are available) that are way above the head of your average Joe and more often than not require specialized test equipment.

I am by no means an expert on SC (not even close) however I have enough of a working knowledge of how it operates to prefer not touching it with a ten foot pole and this goes doubly for a mixed network with IoT devices. And btw on the subject of IoT devices it is best to have them and your high speed smart devices so called on separate routers for reliability, performance, and security not to mention overall complexity of your network but that’s not always practical.

TLDR Smart Connect regularly handshakes and just because your IoT device such as a camera flawlessly connected doesn’t mean it will stay that way or be simple to troubleshoot.

Decent article on the subject. https://www.digitalcitizen.life/smart-connect/

[SlabSlayer]

@nhlter

a technology called “Smart Connect”, and it is one of the most diabolical things ever invented for the network ecosystem for those not in the know under the guise of making a network simpler when it does anything but.

Standing Ovation!

And, to make matters more complex, each router manufacturer disguises their own proprietary flavor of this black magic coding logic behind a different name to make it look appetizing and attractive: Smart Connect, WiFi Fairness, Adaptive QoS (Quality of Service), Device Prioritization, Traffic Control. They all mean the same thing. Coding logic to play a digital shell game with the signal your devices are getting.

[peepeep]

This:

@peepeep

Turns out the TP-Link app Optimize Network function (choosing ‘best’ 2.4 Ghz & 5 Ghz channels to avoid detected interference) was somehow borking the 5 Ghz band instead, forcing my Android 10 phone to cycle quickly between 2.4 Ghz & 5 Ghz connections (settling on 2.4) experienced as intermittent connectivity of the phone and cams, and apparently, bad or unavailable 5 Ghz wireless backhaul.

…was a particularly unpleasant manifestation of (I think) what y’all are talkin’ about.

[pdannolfo]

From an agnostic Network Engineering standpoint, it’s considered good practice to put IoT devices on separate 2.4Ghz Network using 20Mhz bandwidth. The 2.4Ghz signals can penetrate walls better and achieve longer distance. It’s also recommended to turn off WMM (or any kind of QoS) on IoT Networks but this will limit throughput to 802.11g 54Mbps speeds so analyze the IoT network bandwidth requirements for all devices that will be connected. I don’t use a Google WiFi Access Point that shares SSID & Passwords with both 2.4Ghz & 5Ghz bands but in theory if you disable the WiFi option for “Client Isolation” or “AP Isolation” in the Router or AP then all devices should be able to talk to each other regardless of the band they are connected to.

From a personal standpoint I agree with what others said, you need to put anything WYZE on smart outlets that aren’t WYZE. I use TP-Link link because they will keep running the On/Off Schedules even if WiFi goes down and you can manually power cycle the connected device if WiFi is working.

USB Power is a concern and you shouldn’t believe any seller’s marketing claims for aftermarket Power Cubes or USB cables that exceed the standardized USB 15ft limit. Don’t be deceived by looks - just because a USB cable looks rugged or thick doesn’t mean it can maintain the electrical requirements of a device under load. A power supply putting out the correct voltage at rest may drop under load and not supply enough voltage and/or current. I’ve done voltage tests on USB supplies and cables for a Rasberry Pi and the results varied with identical length cables. A device that appears to be running normal on a borderline voltage & current can do funny things when it needs to draw more power.

Like others have said don’t rely on WYZE for Mission Critical or Personal Safety scenarios. Everything is Beta and you, the consumer, are the Quality Control tester.

[CanAmSteve]

I guess we have different viewpoints. To me, your screenshots just reinforce the “hidden in the fine print” nature of Wyze’s info.

I do hope someone wakes Google up to this issue - I’m sure it will be a priority for them, and not a problem for Wyze at all

[SlabSlayer]

Yes. We do have different viewpoints. I take the initiative to read and learn about the products I buy rather than placing the responsibility and accountability for my own education on the company selling the products. Consumers have become far too mentally lazy and incapable of critical thought to manage that. They want the company that makes the product to protect them from their own ignorance.

[CanAmSteve]

I think you sum up your viewpoint perfectly. Thanks for that and the info

[peepeep]

Hmm hm hm hm hmmm… hm.

Visionary.

[fairwhether]

I was primarily using a Mikrotik hAP AC on 5GHz (mostly because of the security and frequent firmware/software [security] upgrades: of which, nothing is better, seriously, nothing), and a mix of re-purposed ad hoc collection of old routers-as-APs.

Back then, offline was frequent for some V3’s, less frequent for others, and I think a couple just never had issues.

Then …my baby bro’ bought a couple of TPLink Omada EAPxxx AP’s, and said I should look at them (to replace my ad-hoc collection) …simply because he liked the UI.

Hmm …FWIW, I should interject here that I’m a sys admin, and support several remote client offices a couple of states away? (BTW, I’d long since previously moved all the offices to various models of Mikrotiks for the frequent security upgrades.)

Anyways. Not only did I end up upgrading my entire AP mix to all TPLink Omada’s (mostly EAP 610s) and such, but mandated it for all the client offices, too. (The Omada line also has frequent security firmware & software upgrades, though less than the Mikrotiks.) Note: for remote offices, we also mandate a TP Link Omada OC200 hardware controller (which makes remote support a no-brainer).

Since we completed those WiFi upgrades a little over a year ago, we have had zip-zero-nada issues with WiFi in the client offices. Nor any complaints. None. Just sayin.

And, not entirely coincidentally, and pertinent to this thread. None of the V3’s have had a non-power related offline incident.

(I did notice the Pan V2 had an offline a few weeks …mostly notable due to not having seen one in so long lol.)

Note: as part of my personal network upgrade, I also replaced the hAP AC with a Mikrotik RB3011 (non-WiFi) router …because I got a really good deal on it lol.

Anyways. My anecdotal recommendation (to the more techie inclined), is for a minimum Mikrotik router - the RB2011 is pretty powerful for home use (if it’s a hAP ACx then TURN OFF the internal WiFi) - and as many TP Link EAP 610’s as needed for your inside coverage area, along with as many outdoor versions as needed there.

(I have a couple of EAP225’s, but while “looking up model names” while writing this reply, I just noticed they have a new EAP610-Outdoor offering …which I will surely be purchasing to replace an EAP225 or two …mostly because the EAP610 support WiFi6 at 1GB+ speeds. Yeah, measured WiFi speeds are typically higher than wire speeds “depending on local environmental conditions”. Who knew.)

Summary.

Replace your consumer grade router system with a prosumer small business class Mikrotik RB2011, and add as many EAP610’s as coverage dictates (that would typically be qty 2 for a 2500 sq ft ranch style house, and maybe a single EAP225 outdoor for, say, a 1/4 acre lot).

CAVEAT EMPTOR: If you’re not a techie, or don’t have access to a friendly networking techie, there is a fairly steep learning curve involved here. For both the Mikrotiks and the Omada HW. But. It. Will. Be. Worth. It …especially as regards Cam V3 connectivity reliability. (Security peace-of-mind should be the real reason to upgrade tho’. Just sayin’.)

Uh. This was meant as a reply to the poster asking for specific router/WiFi recommendations. But it seems to have moved to the main thread. Sorry. (Dunno how to fix that.)

[peepeep]

Sorry. It resonated when you ‘said’ it. From San Franciscan Nights.