How to have notification of sound being detected. Third cam pan v3 i try and I tried to talk to 6 people from wyze ...so i turn to the community

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21

+1 from me. I see everyone saying basically accurate things from different perspectives. :+1: Since I was asked, I’ll try to add some clarification of my own even though I think it’s mostly worked out already.

Cam Plus is not needed for GENERAL sound notifications, only for the specific AI sounds (Crying, Barking, Meowing, Talking Gunshot, Glass Breaking being labeled separately with separate notifications for only those things instead of just “ANY SOUND”).

But you are correct that Wyze should clear up the ambiguity with an improved interface to show what’s free vs premium.

They should also change the wording from saying “Other Sound” to say “ANY Sound” or “All Sound” to clarify that it includes the AI sounds too, but won’t distinguish between what type of sound it heard.

One thing that really affects sound events and notifications though, is that sound can only trigger an event once every 5 minutes and it is limited to a 12 second event. These sound limits are even in place for people paying for cam plus. However, if an event was triggered by motion, then the AI will analyze the sound during that entire motion event and not limit it to 12 seconds.

In other words, if someone is behind the camera and starts talking, but the camera doesn’t see them, it will trigger and record for 12 seconds and send an alert. However, if it had sound triggered anytime in the last 5 minutes, and now new sound is made, it will ignore that sound and not tell anyone about it until a full 5 minutes passes, then if it hears another sound, it will trigger a new 12 second event and alert. A lot of alerts get missed this way. I reported this issue to Wyze some time ago, that even cam plus subscribers are subjected to a sound cooldown, just not a motion cooldown rate limit.

In some cases this can explain why a person can stand behind the camera and yell and not get a notification, because it already detected a sound event in the last 5 minutes. samsam can better verify this by going to the events tab and using a filter to select the specific camera they are testing and then sort it to only show events with a “Sound” detected. (I think free accounts should be able to sort by sound events still). If any show up, then you can be sure sound events are actually processing. If one happened within 5 minutes of your testing of yelling at the camera, then that would explain why you didn’t get a new notification. But if it shows an event and you just didn’t get a notification for it, then there is a separate issue entirely and we need to figure out why notifications aren’t coming through (check everything @Crease posted)

Yes, if a person doesn’t have a subscription then ALL sounds get processed as “Other Sound” BUT if a person has Cam Plus, then Cam Plus will give priority to the specific subcategory of sound detected before just labeling it “Other Sound” like fmills1d is accurately explaining has been their experience while using it with the subscription.

Here is the how that is supposed to work, and they sometimes have a bug with it:
If you select “All Events” then go to custom detections, you have the option to select AI events and “Other Motion” (AKA “ALL Motion”) and “Other Sounds” (AKA “All sounds”). And in the cloud events tab, it will also show you events that didn’t have an AI detection in them.
If you select “Smart Detection Events” then in theory (not always in practice) it should disable the “Other Motion” and “Other Sound” notifications and labels and automatically delete (or hide) all cloud events that don’t have an AI detection in them. This is intended to keep your events tab clean and only show you events that have relevant AI detections in them.

Sometimes there is a glitch and selecting “Smart Detections” only hides the option to turn on or off notifications for “Other Motion” or “Other Sound” but will continue to send you notifications for those even though it is hiding the events for those from you. In that case the only way to overcome that accidental but annoying bug is to temporarily switch back from “Smart Detections” to “All Events” so the notification option will show up for you again, then go to customize and manually toggle off the notification for “Other Motion” or “Other Sound” and then you can go switch back to “Smart Events” and everything will go as intended (only get notifications for AI detections and only see AI events in the cloud events tab).
Hopefully they fixed that bug though. I haven’t seen anyone reporting it since I reported it to some employees a while ago. :crossed_fingers:

Sorry, I know that’s a little confusing.

TL;DR: I think there was just a misunderstanding and everyone was saying basically correct things from a different point of view of free vs premium, and it looks like samsam got the issue resolved.

:+1:

(sorry for the late response…I have a ton going on this weekend)

22

That’s what I was seeing when I tested it.

I don’t see this communicated within the app to subscribers, either. That seems like a problem if that kind of limit is going to be enforced.

I occasionally see users report it when they say that they’re receiving either the (unwanted/unexpected) nonspecific “Sound Detected” notifications or “Complete Motion Detected” notifications, so I think it’s an ongoing problem.

I saw no Smart Detection events when I tested as described above, but I also wasn’t trying to create any sounds that would’ve otherwise been classified by any of the Smart Detection labels. I was creating a nonspecific loud click just to generate a sound for detection, so that’s what I saw in the notifications and events.

I don’t think that’s the case if a user (even a subscribed user) makes careful and deliberate selections, and I think it’s also important to note this distinction:

  • If a user selects  Settings ➜ Event Recording ➜ Smart Detection Events, then the specifics are selected on the Customize Recordings screen, which has RECORD and NOTIFY column headings for the checkboxes.
  • If a user selects  Settings ➜ Event Recording ➜ All Events, then the specifics are selected on the Customize Detections screen, which has TAG and NOTIFY column headings for the checkboxes.

They’re not even the same screen for selecting (checking) the desired options, which I think contributes to some user confusion, and I also wonder if the app and back end treat them as the same thing. It seems unclear and is kind of a usability mess.

Also, in my experience, every time I’ve selected All Events (instead of Smart Detection Events) and then tapped Customize Detections, I have seen that Other Motion and Other Sounds both have boxes automatically checked in the NOTIFY column, which I think probably happens as soon as All Events is selected. That means if I have selected All Events even momentarily, then I need to make sure I access the Customize Detections screen to un-check notifications for both Other Motion and Other Sounds in order to prevent receiving nonspecific “Complete Motion Detected” and “Sound Detected” notifications. Then I can re-select Smart Detection Events and confirm the selections I want on the Customize Recordings screen.

I think it’s important as a subscriber to understand this and to pay attention to the differences here, at least unless/until Wyze directly addresses this.

:+1:

23

@Crease - You are correct, events and notifications are not the same screen, however, I pointed out 2 or 3 years ago, what you check off for events is automatically checked off in notifications if you have it turned on. I’ve never had to check the boxes separately. I just tested it while typing this response. Select or unselect events will be mirrored in notifications and vice-versa. Perhaps an anomaly or an unintended codependency by Wyze engineers?

Additionally, again unclicking smart events on 2 specific cams and turning on all for events and notifications, I still get notifications as some are being pushed to my phone and announced thru Alexa on my echo dot 5.

Thank you and @carverofchoice for your inputs and comprehensive replies.

24

I recall discussion in this topic (near this post) about how two pathways[1] essentially lead to the same screen. The distinction I’m trying to be clear about, which I think may be confusing and not recognized by a lot of users, is this:

Event Recording choice “Customize” screen[2] 1st column[3] “Other”[4]?
All Events Customize Detections TAG
Smart Detection Events Customize Recordings RECORD

I think the failure to recognize this difference has cause a fair amount of confusion for Forum users, particularly in cases where an establish subscriber is trying to assist a new non-subscribed user, because they’re describing different things without realizing it.

That doesn’t really address @samsam’s issue, but I think it’s important to keep in mind, especially when those “Complete Motion Detected” and “Sound Detected” notifications problems arise for subscribers.

  1. Example:
    • Settings âžœ Event Recording âžœ All Events âžœ Customize Detections
    • Settings âžœ Notifications âžœ Manage ↩︎

  2. This same screen will be shown for Settings ➜ Notifications ➜ Manage based on the “RECORDING PREFERENCES” selection on the Event Recording screen. ↩︎

  3. This is in addition to “NOTIFY” column, which both the “Customize Detections” and “Customize Recordings” screens show. ↩︎

  4. Are “Other Motion” and “Other Sounds” present as options to select/deselect? ↩︎

25

Hi

HI does that mean that if a dog barks at 0:00 and lays down for 3 min and at 4:00 he barks again all we would ever receive is notification of the firts bark? true for paid plan too?

If it is the case, since 99 pourcent of the sound to be heard is whinning or barking, what is the advantage of getting the paid version? Especially if some one adds a micro sd card (which also confuses me)

On another hand, what level of sensibility seems to be the sweet spot to hear the whinning but not the nail touching floor while walking?

thanks

26

Without a subscription, both motion and sound events are limited to one every 5 minutes. So you can have one of each within a 5 minute period (so theoretical max 2 per 5 minutes, well 3 if you have alarm sounds enabled and one happens to go off).

If the dog barks, then barks again 3 minutes later, the second will not tag or notify you. But if it barks again 2 mins and 1 second later (5 mins 1 second total) it will tag and notify that 3rd one.

Note this does not impact SD card recording, if you have it set to “event only” it will still record it, just won’t mark it as an event and won’t notify you.

If you have a subscription, this limit is removed and you can be notified of every event no matter how little time has passed.

27

That is true… Assuming that there was never any motion detection going on at the same time.
If, there was also a tree branch blowing around at 3:55 and then the dog barked again at 4:00, then you would get another notification about the second bark because the motion event caused the AI to analyze sound again while it was analyzing the video anyway. So your description is accurate only if the video had no motion detection involved. Since motion detection triggers new events pretty easily, most people rarely notice this limitation that only applies when there is only a sound change and no motion for that entire 5 minutes.

Depends on the use case. For some people they want specific sounds detected when there could be more things. In other cases, there is no sound detection cooldown when paired with a motion event. For an example with watching a dog in the house, if the camera is positives to watch the entire room, then anytime the dog is in the room it is likely recording an event with no cooldown. If the dog then whines or barks, you’ll get a notification for every event because the dog is in the room triggering motion events anyway.

Whether the subscription is worth it or not will vary depending on a particular user’s specific use case and preferences. For some people it may not make sense.

This depends on a lot of factors:

  • Flooring
  • Environment acoustics
  • Dog breed and nails
  • Dog personality and gait
  • Camera model
  • Your preference for what you’re willing to settle for (get every single bark but sometimes have other sounds vs rarely get other sounds at all, but might miss a free softer barks)
  • Countless other things

Just choose a setting in the middle and then adjust it up or down a little depending on whether you’re getting too many notifications of things you didn’t care about (turn the sensitivity down) or missing some notifications you wish you’d received (turn the sensitivity up). That’s how most of us decided what was best for each room or location on the sensitivity settings.

Excellent clarification! :+1:

28

HI i read an previous answer from wyze staff;Thank you for reaching out regarding the camera cooldown concern.

To clarify, if the camera has an active subscription assigned to it, there will be no 5-minute cooldown between event recordings

-- so from what i understand it is not really true. is it

Here is what i understand reading you. Everytime a movement or sound is made the camera detects it. . For paid version, when a motion is detected it kills the cooldown of the sound and vice versa. So if the dog barks at 0:00 move at 0:03 then if he barks at 0.07 the user will receive all 3 notification.

for the free version, a sound or mouvement detection do not kill the 5 min cool down. Did I get it right?

Thanks

29

You’re correct, with the camera tied to a subscription you can be notified of every event no matter how close together they are.

Without a subscription, you can have one motion and one sound event per 5 minute period.

30

For the free version:

  • events triggered solely by general sound, but no motion in the video has a cool down of 5 minutes.
  • events triggered by motion (which also records sound during the event and may show this in the event label and give a sound notification at the same time) Have their own separate 5-minute cooldown
  • therefore, you can technically get up to two notifications every 5 minutes for a camera that does not have a subscription. Once with motion, and once with sound but no motion.

For the subscription:

  • events triggered solely by general sound, but no motion in the video has a cooldown of 5 minutes. This is exactly the same as those who have the free version with no subscription.
  • events triggered by motion (which also records sound during the event, will also have the AI analyze the event to see if it detected sound at the same time) Have no cool down at all. If sound occurs at the same time as motion, you will get a notification once recorded event.
    • Now, some clarification is needed about what counts as a motion event. If there is non-stop motion for 20 minutes, then the camera will break up that event into 5-minute increments. So 20 minutes of somebody doing jumping jacks or running in a circle where the camera is continually recording. Motion, will break the video up into 5-minute chunks but record everything with no cooldown. In this case, the camera would actually end up sending four notifications for motion. Once every 5 minutes when it starts a new event. However, if motion happens for 30 seconds, then stops for 5 seconds and then starts and goes for 30 more seconds with motion and then stops with no motion for another 5 seconds, you will get two different motion events For 30 seconds each. During those 30 seconds when there was motion, there was no cooldown, but because there was no motion for 5 seconds, the vent ended and it started a new event once motion picked up again. During this time, if there were people talking, then it would also send a notification for sound every time the new motion event started because it would also recognize that there was sound during the motion event and notify you every time there was sound. So in the case where there was 30 seconds of motion and then a stop of motion and then 30 seconds of motion again, if there was sound the whole time, then you would have gotten to sound notifications as well. However, for the previous example, where if there was 20 minutes of non-stop motion, Even if the sound was intermittent of just once per minute, it would not give a separate notification for each sound made during the same motion event. Each 5-minute motion event counts as one single event that can only get one in-kind notification. So during the first 5 minutes of the non-stop motion event, if a dog barks every 30 seconds, it will have barked 10 times during that 5 minutes Of non-stop motion, but you will not get 10 sound notifications or 10 barking notifications. During that 5 minutes. You will only get one notification during that whole 5-minute event even though there were 10 separate times the dog barked in that 5 minutes (once every 30 seconds) Because the motion never stopped so it was still part of that same continual event.

I know that’s kind of confusing. I’m tempted to copy and paste everything I wrote into an AI and tell it to simplify it to be more clear but I guess anybody else can clarify it if needed.

The technical way to understand it is that with the free version you get one sound-only event notification every 5 minutes and one motion notification every 5 minutes (which may also include sound).

With the subscription, you also still only get one sound-only event notification every 5 minutes, And then you get unlimited motion event notifications with no cooldown, but motion events will never be longer than 5 minutes at a time. And if continual motion goes longer than 5 minutes, then the camera will break up the event into 5 minutes increments, start a new event and issue a new notification, And during that motion event, it can also issue one sound event during that event time as well.

So, the key thing to understand here with the subscription is what counts as an event (continual motion with no breaks or a max of 5 minutes at the longest).

31

Did not know that. Odd. Does it also apply to “Smart” sound events?

32

Only for sounds-only events. If trees are blowing in the wind or shadows moving in some way, then the ongoing motion will make it a motion event with no cooldown. For this reason almost nobody notices or realizes the issue, because the truth is that it is rare to have an event with sound only and no motion… Plus, if you don’t get Notification, you generally don’t realize you missed a sound. So for those 2 reasons, hardly anyone knows about it.

Having said that, I have told this to employees who said they were going to suggest updating sound to have no cooldown either, so it’s possible it’s been changed since the last time I checked, or that it could change at any time. But last time I tested things, this is how they worked.

33

Interesting, so OP’s original question about a dog barking (which might not have motion) they can only get one every 5 mins even with a subscription…

34

Correct.

At least as of the last time I tested it… Again, I did report this and it’s always possible it can change, but I don’t think anyone has changed it Because, anyone who lives near a freeway or in a room with a fan, or near an air conditioner, Or a number of other situations) would have automatic sound recordings 24/7 despite they’re not really being anything going on. This would drive up the cloud costs significantly.

I do think there is one possible exception though. I don’t have Cam unlimited pro, but I remember they said they were going to offer 24/7 recording on one camera. If they do this, that would pretty much mean that particular camera would be recording whether or not there is motion happening, which means it is also analyzing all sound 24/7 as well. So that camera with that subscription would potentially have no sound cool down. I haven’t tested this of course since I don’t have that subscription, but it seems reasonable to me that it would be able to tell you about every sound instance. But regular cam plus and cam unlimited will not.

35

Yeah I have never enabled sound events (other than alarm sounds) as it would just be a bunch of nonsense around here. Just a bit surprised that they have a cooldown for subscribers. Of course whether it is intentional due to the number of events and stress it would cause on the system, or an oversight, hard to say…

36

Speaking of which…don’t quote me on this, but I THINK I remember testing the alarm notifications (CO/CO2) and found they were subject to the same limits and treated as sound events. I don’t recall definitively testing it out, but now I am wondering what would happen if (all without motion events) a dog barks at 1:00pm and triggers a sound notification, then the smoke alarm goes off at 1:02pm (before the 5 minute interval has expired). I am guessing the camera would NOT send an alarm notification since it won’t do another sound event until after 1:05pm. But I could be wrong. They could have it built in to the firmware totally separately to treat the alarms differently since those are local/edge detections and aren’t reliant on the cloud.

Another possible event type is an automation event. I used to use this to get around the cooldown limits back when I didn’t have cam plus. I would put a contact sensor on my doors and a motion sensor in front of my house, then set an automation to automatically upload a 12-second event to the cloud and send me a notification any time the sensor was triggered. Now instead of a limit of 1 notification/event-video every 5 minutes, I could get one to reduce the cooldown to be just every 45 seconds or so (the motion detectors take about that long to clear). No more 5 minute cooldown :joy: You could possibly do some other similar fancy loopholes for sound using another brand’s IoT device that flips a Wyze plug on and off which then forces a recorded event.

Anyway, just idle thoughts related to the topic.

37

thanks

38

Correct, smoke/co alarms are one per 5 mins max, which in my case I assumed was just due to the overall limitation of not having a subscription. But that one isn’t really an issue since you don’t need to be notified multiple times of an alarm.

The one thing about those alerts that isn’t obvious is that if you want alarm notifications but not other sound notifications, you have to turn off sound detections, but then go into customize and turn on notifications for sounds. If you disable notifications on the cam, you won’t get alarm ones either. The fact that the alarm feature is on its own screen and does not say anything about relying on sound notifications being enabled is confusing. I’m glad I tested it and figured that out.

So in my case I have one cam that I only want to notify me of motion when I’m away for a day or more. But I would want it to notify me of an alarm always. Instead of just being able to toggle notifications for that cam on and off (since turning them off would also shut off alarm detection) I have to toggle just the motion notifications on and off, leaving sound always on. But sound “event recording” is disabled, though it still shows up as “tag” in the customize screen. I guess in that “mode” the tag is just referring to alarms and nothing else. Fairly confusing.

So if you want alarm notifications but no other sound notifications you need

Alarm screen enable both
Event recording screen disable sound
Customize detections screen check off notifications for “other sounds” (tag is also checked off, can’t be unchecked).

39

The other thing sort of on this topic that I find a bit weird, but I guess I can understand it, is that there can really only be one tag for a particular point in time. I’m not sure if that is different for subscribers or not, but motion and sound that happen at the same time will only generate one event from what I recall.

That part isn’t a problem, but when I tried to set up a “cam plus lite” type free cloud setup with an automation for “when detects motion” “upload a short clip to the cloud” - it does actually do it, but you can not see that cloud clip because it is basically overridden by the motion event and won’t display the automation event. And of course if you disable motion events then it won’t trigger the upload to the cloud.

Suppose that one may be intentional to prevent people from doing what I was trying to do. I guess I could get motion sensors and do it that way, but in reality it isn’t a big deal since I have SD cards, just thought it would be nice for redundancy. I did test it with having one cam as the trigger and the other as the uploader and that worked to a certain extent. But obviously I don’t have two cams in every spot and it also caused some other weird behaviors like interfering with my automation that turns on the spotlight etc.

40

I have seen both overlapping many times. I remember this a few times when my toddler cries out in the middle of the night. I will have a 12 second sound event and a separate x-minute motion event with the same time. I don’t know the limits or whatever, but I have DEFINITELY seen both at the same time occasionally and been grateful for it. Actually, oddly, there have been times where the sound event recording was superior to the motion event recording. I can’t remember why, just that a few times I saved the sound event recording either because the sound synced better with the video or else the video had fewer artifacts and blur for some reason. I just remember that it was slightly different and the sound event was superior for some reason, which is really weird.

I haven’t experimented with the free option for a long time, but I am sure you are accurate.