Security system or not?

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Neither Wyze or anyone else can control what a person may or may not “consider” something. My wife considers and uses a screwdriver handle as a hammer sometimes. That does not mean the screw driver is a hammer.

Wyze and many others make various devices that could be considered a part of a security system. But again that does not make them one. These forums are full of people reporting various and sundry issues with Sense components from incorrectly reporting their state to loosing connectivity entirely.

The cameras by default do not record anything other than a maximum of 1 event with 12 second duration every 5 minutes. These forums also include literally 100’s of reports of SD card recording failing to work reliably and CMC failing to detect a “person standing in front of the camera and dancing”. So while everyone is free to consider these devices security devices or whatever they want to call them that does not make it so. Frankly anyone that would use these devices as security devices desperately needs to do some simple research.

Yes they are now marketing a lock. So do 100’s of other companies. But that definition of security is not the same as the one used by true security systems. A door lock makes your door secure in the sense it won’t blow open in the wind. They are also rumored to be marketing a scale. That won’t make them magically a medical company.

Now all of that said I use their products as home automation aides that make my life easier. Contacts turn lights on and off for me, or warn me when I leave a door or window open, motion sensors do some of the same and help me tell my HVAC system I am occupying a room I don’t normally use. Camera let me see the neighbors dogs antics chasing a stick on the trail behind my house. Or see who rang my doorbell and talk to them even potentially let them in without even being home.

In general these devices make my life easier, and help me accomplish repetitive tasks. But the one thing they don’t do, and were not designed to do, is secure my home and property. I use a dedicated alarm system that was professionally installed and monitored for that.

Yes you CAN use the products as a DIY security system just as I earlier said you can use a .22 to hunt elephants. But it does mean it’s a good idea to do so nor are your results likely to be anywhere near ideal.

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To add a bit to the conversation the Reddit AMA about the sensors has some interesting responses (Link to AMA: Wyze Sense AMA).

" > 20. Are you guys ready to be a security company? Or is this more of a hobby for people to use but not count on?

We don’t specifically consider ourselves a security company. Yes, we make products that customers can use for security, but that’s not the sole purpose of Wyze Cam or Wyze Sense. Now that doesn’t mean we don’t take security super seriously. So to answer your question, no we’re not a security company (because we don’t want to be), but we will love and support our customers who use our products for security (or other) purposes."

" > 15. Who is the manufacturing partner and what is their experience? Security devices are a whole new game.

Our team includes people who have made security sensors before and the actual factory has been making Wyze Cams so we have a deep relationship with them."

" > 17. Will monitoring be available? What is the price? What is the timeline? Who is the provider of those services?

Not yet, but we’re considering it."

" > 5. How do you expect people who may be already invested in another system to make the switch? What is the incentive? Financial, reliability, unique benefit, differentiating sensor?

Wyze Cam is not specifically a security camera. Some customers may use it for that, but many use it for other creative purposes. Wyze Sense is the same. Yes, you can put it on your doors and windows for security, but you can also put it on liquor cabinets, garbage cans (if I leave it open my dog will welcome me home with trash everywhere!), or anything else that opens or closes. So if someone already has invested hundreds of dollars on contact sensors with a security company that’s okay because Wyze Sense fills a niche the other companies avoid (are you really going to put a $40 sensor on your garbage can?). And for those who don’t have sensors on all their doors or windows, we think we have a great solution!"

They are not a security company, but they do support the use of their products for secutity, however you may define that.

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That may be true, but would a thinking person that cares about their family or property do that? Especially if all the posts in these forums are to be believed? Sensors that don’t stay connected or get “stuck” as open or closed. Cameras that can’t or don’t sense movement directly in front of them half the time? Even when you have paid for CMC?

And let’s not say it’s better than nothing, because that is absolutely not true. Growing to rely on something inherently unreliable is dangerous. More so than not having any system at all and therefor taking normal precautions. False security is worse than no security.

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I would absolutely not rely on them, and do not rely on their products. I like the cameras and since I am traveling quite frequently for work, it is nice to be able to check on things. I am of the belief that my home automation stuff is for home automation, and my security system is for some level of security. Each does their job well, but not vice versa.

Regarding reliability, compared to many of my other sensors etc. Wyze is just too unreliable and all my sensors are out of service in a box that continues to grow with home automation cast-aways…

I really want to like their contact sensors as the form factor is really nice, but not being Zigbee or Z-wave (which I knew when I purchased them) is certainly a bummer.

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I didn’t quote it all to save some space, but I could not have said it better myself.

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I stand corrected.

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I just hope that even though Wyze is NOT a security company and their products are NOT security devices, I hope they will still strive to produce and develop their products towards usability, stability and reliability. I hope Wyze could stay on the “best value” price and category range and not fall on the " you got what you pay for" category. But I’m impress that they’re doing their best to achieve that goal.

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I have two extremely vicious Yorkshire terriers, Now that is a security system! :grin:

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You sir are a person after my own heart. I had two extremely security conscious dachshunds that alert when the ISS overflies my property. They unfortunately passed on. But I am training (attempting) my 2 cats to be security aware.

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The Wyze door lock argument isn’t sound. A door lock with the option of unlocking remotely is as much a security system as a remote garage door opener is.

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Whether remote or a physical key to unlock is not inherently unequal risk (or equal risk)
The risk is predicated on the security of the technologies and implementation.
There’s nothing inherently insecure about Bluetooth unless there are known flaws about the iteration of the Bluetooth standard/gen being used, and even if Bluetooth were to be more risk prone than a physical key, it doesn’t speak to whether it’s as equally risky as keypad implementation.

Both surface area and risk of each “moving part” are all independent considerations and not necessarily equal. It could turn out to be equal, but it’s not inherently equal.

I’m not trying to be pedantic heh, but I’m a software dev and this is how i must think.

//last edit, most garage doors that people have (I’m not up to speed with present day new models) are horribly insecure mostly because of the bit shift registers and implementation

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In telling friends about this product and then knowing my sensibilities around security, i heard a good bit of “but what if you are hacked?” (Wyze lock) A legitimate concern , but most home invasions of not nearly all of them are smash and grab. Most people’s weakest link is a sufficiently powerful kick near the locks using one’s heel, or else breaking a window. Low tech solutions

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I wish you the best of luck herding cats. It’s very difficult from what I understand. Perhaps you need to tell them they can torture home invaders… cats like that stuff 1​:cat2::cat2::cat2:

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A lock is part of a security system. A camera is part of a security system. Neither is a very good security system by themselves. You’d have a better chance at a good security system of you contact somebody who specializes in security. But that said, if a lock is all you have, then that’s your security system.

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I WISH they were selling it!

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I see so many assumptions that are so close to getting things right but miss the mark on what a security system is (I think jfervin got it as close to right as anyone). I’m also seeing some assumptions that are just plain wrong. So, what is a security system? A hook and eye latch on a screen door is a security system. It’s just not a good one because it is easily defeated and its operational parameters are commonly known. Saying that a security system must be professionally monitored and installed is equally missing the mark and frankly untrue. It helps but it doesn’t come close to a definition. In fact, many businesses don’t have monitoring services. Their systems contact the police, fire or other safety agent directly. So, again, what is a security system. It’s simply the use of many deterrents in layers, beginning with the perimeter and working inward that slow (not stop, because no technology will stop someone that’s determined to get in) a bad actor long enough for a security response and/or the occupants to get to a safe location. There are also other factors such as likelihood of attack, crime statistics, etc. that inform what manner of technologies one might need but there are hundreds of books and white papers on that subject alone.

Saying that a Wyze lock or a magnetic switch (Sense) does or does not make them a security system is, frankly, a silly argument. When layered together with other security devices, they indeed make a security system even if it’s not monitored; provided that the totality of the systems meets what I described before - a means to notify the occupants to get to safety or notify police themselves. Even the most “secure” facilities that that monitoring and professional installations still have breeches. It’s a game between the bad actor and the person/company they attack. The person/company being attacked has to be right every time, the bad actor has to be right only once.

So, what’s my point? What anyone wants to call a security system is malleable, not definitive. How effective it is depends on the person installing it and what they know or have the resources to inform them. The system in my home isn’t what I would recommend for my clients by any means but it’s more than sufficient for my home. Full disclosure, I’m a certified physical security professional and I am a security consultant for federal agencies.

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The Wyze lock is just a device to lock and unlock your currently installed door lock. Wyze is not selling an actual lock. It’s just a device that piggybacks on your current lock.

The Wyze lock is not providing any additional security, it’s adding convenience.

And your current door lock is actually pretty easy to defeat. I used to secure repossessed homes, there was not a lock I encountered that could not be opened with a drill and a hammer usually in about a minute and I was not professional.

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I was just going to mention that. if you sat down the Wyze “lock” on a table and asked 100 people what it was, maybe 10 would say something that even combines with a lock.

to call it a lock is more of a feasibility for understanding aimed at the general non tech population. it’s more of a wifi lock SWITCH by definition.

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True, it acts more as a key for your lock. So then the question becomes, is your key a component of security?

When all is said and done, none of it really matters all that much. Wyze say’s they’re not a security company, so they aren’t, simple as that. They do however sell devices that traditionally are used for security.

I don’t think it really matters one way or another. My only problem is that reliability or lack of often gets excused away in these forums with the security argument. So when someone says something like “I walked by my camera and it didn’t record me, what if it was a porch package thief?” or “The contact sensor on my door went offline and failed to notify me the door opened, what if it was a bad dude?” There are often responses in the forum along the lines “Wyze isn’t for security” used as an excuse for failure.

To me at least, what it’s called doesn’t matter. If you buy something that makes claims about it’s functions, it should perform those functions as advertised. If I buy a camera that says it records people that move, then it should do that and people don’t want to hear what is basically, don’t rely on it doing what it is advertised to do for anything important.

Edited to add: And I love Wyze products. Just bought another camera and some more sensors.

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I understand your point, even largely agree with you. However I can buy a 20 dollar airbrush or a 200 dollar airbrush. Both say they will and both do apply paint to an object. How well they do the job is where the rubber hits the road.

My $20 brush works great for quick paint jobs particularly of larger areas. My $200 dollar brush works great for all kinds of areas and objects. It will also last longer and is more reliable in its operation than its cheaper brother.

And no it’s not just price. So while Wyze I think makes a wonderful series of products I don’t think I or anyone that thinks about it would trust the devices for security of my family.

They can certainly contribute to my security but if I walk down my hall towards my bathroom and the Wyze motion sensor fails to pick me up and turn the bathroom lights on I just shrug and toggle the switch.

But if someone approaches my house at night when the security system is armed I fully expect the external flood lights to go on, if they continue and touch a door or window then the trembler sensor better go off at which point some inside lights go on and the security response company better get called even if the bad guys cut my power and land line phone. If they then open or break a door or window the audible alarm better go off, the cops better get called and all security lights inside and out better go on even if the power/network/phone lines are cut.

Is it fool/fail proof? No, nothing is. Is my security system much more reliable than Wyze, Alexa, Ring etc? Head and shoulders above them. I pay a lot more as well but that’s a choice I made and luckily I can afford it.

Yes I agree a product should perform the tasks it said it would. But heck my $60,000 car should start when I turn the key, it does, most of the time. But sometimes it fails, for any number of reasons.

Now all of what I said is fine but not everyone can afford such a system. I know that, in which case the Simpli Safe, Ring, CPI systems are there, and they can certainly perform the basic functions of a security system tolerably well. But Wyze products are very far down the list when you are talking even minimal security.

Contact sensors fail sometimes, Wyze’s fail more often than say Rings. Same with motion sensors. But DIY systems Can be better than nothing so long as you are not lulled into a false sense of security.