What exactly is the free edge ai person detection (without cam plus) available on the V4
If person detection is not free on the V4 why does Wyze say it is:
UPDATE: Wyze did the wyze thing and solved this problem by simply removing any reference to the V4 in the above articles.
Good luck getting a clear answer to this one. I haven’t, and I’ve been trying via multiple posts in this topic, starting here:
I also asked for clarification from a Wyze employee regarding his previous comments in a different thread:
So far, I’ve had no response, which is disappointing, but I’ve grown to expect that from Wyze, unfortunately.
I hope you have better results achieving an answer than I have! If you do, then I’d appreciate your sharing it here.
This is not the first time wyze has (i’ll say it) lied about features. Sensor on/off, Google home features to name 2. People will twist themselves to explain why it is the way it is, but in all these cases there is no question what the support articles say, what wyze says vs what we get is simply a lie.
Let’s do a class action lawsuit so lawyers can make millions and we can get $1 each.
Wyze created these forums to make it look like they are giving support and answering questions but very few wyze employees (and usually not to answer these kind of questions) ever interact here.
Note that the articles you linked to are for the V3Pro, not the V4.
The V3Pro does have free person detection LABELS, but last I checked it still doesn’t do person detection notifications, which I think is still a HORRIBLE decision. What is the point of having free person detection if it doesn’t allow notifications for it? We can sort events after the fact to find person detections, but who cares about that? People want to be notified when a person is detected, and when I checked, the V3Pro didn’t allow that. (I believe it also allows using person detection rules, and this is a lot more useful, but I still think notifications are the main thing people want/expect when they are told about person detection being free).
V4’s don’t allow free person detection at all. They do have Local/Edge Person Detection on them, but it is pay-walled and only works if you pay for cam plus. I think this is another bad decision. If something isn’t going to cost them any money (local AI detection), it should be included/free. I understand and agree with charging for cloud storage and cloud AI detections because it has ongoing costs to them, but I don’t agree with paywalling something that has no ongoing cost. That is not following their value of “Be friends with users” in my opinion.
Anyway, Wyze hasn’t promised Free Person Detection for the V4. They have said it has local/edge detection, but it can only be used if you pay for cam plus. They have not lied about this anywhere publicly that I see. The articles you linked to are not about the V4 and they tell the truth about the V3Pro which they are talking about. The V3Pros DO include free person detection. I have verified this. So there is no misinformation as far as I have found. Just some disappointment.
(edit: I was corrected and missed the footnote at the bottom of those 2 articles which DO clarify it should be free on the V4)
If it’s not a lie then it is intentionally misleading, the 2nd articles ends with:
Can I also get free Person Detection on other cameras?
Yes, but only on a few Wyze Cams: Wyze Cam v3 Pro, Wyze Cam v4, and Wyze Cam Floodlight Pro. These cameras utilize a powerful Edge AI microprocessor that our other cameras do not have.
Reading that sure sounds different then what you said!
Ah yes, I see your point. Nice catch! I overlooked the footnote. Thanks for the correction.
I’m sure they’ll say it’s just a mistake and that it was meant to say “edge detection” instead of free detection since other articles seem clarify that the V4 has Edge AI but not for free as stated in this article:
But it does currently seem like it is 2 to 1 that it should include free person detection. I’m going to give it a shot to try to leverage the other articles to get them to fix the V4 to give free Edge AI on the V4 like they do with the Floodlight Pro & V3 Pro, but I am sure they will just fix their mistake. I’ll point it out anyway. Thanks for correcting my oversight. I am very supportive of trying to get free person detection on any camera that has edge AI capabilities. It doesn’t make sense to me to paywall it.
The product page for the Cam v3 Pro certainly implies that it does person detection notifications, though:
No, it is not.
That’s still not how I interpret the comments from the Director of Subscription Growth in the topic I linked above, though I can certainly understand why someone in his position might be hesitant to confirm such a feature (if it actually existed) as being included in the camera without a subscription. Although I praised him in that topic for what I believed was his honesty (that such a feature is included in Cam v4 without a subscription), I learned after purchasing Cam v4s that this actually isn’t the case, and I’ve tagged him for clarification of his previous remarks, but that hasn’t yielded any result, which is frustrating and disappointing.
I’m not sure how I feel about that, because I believe that lying involves an intent to deceive. I can’t say with certainty that this is the case with Wyze, but I still insist that their messaging on the matter has been unclear and self-contradictory, at best, and I’m glad that @beemgee has raised this issue, as well, because I’ve been feeling like I’m the only one being vocal about it.
Thank you. I know you’re well aware of my thoughts on the matter (along with the articles and Wyze employee quotes I’ve referenced elsewhere). That’s a matter of public record.
I appreciate your advocacy. You’re like Tron. (He fights for the users.)
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I have always been very strongly and adamantly vocally opposed to the V3Pro not having person notifications without Cam Plus. I very strongly condemned this decision, and at one point I thought I convinced Wyze to fix the issue, but when I checked later, it was still never fixed. I haven’t checked in over a year though, so I can’t say with absolute certainty that it’s still that way, but I am sure it is since it was still that way many months after launch.
However, as I understand it, what the above graphic is intended to show you is that when you have cam plus with both a V3 and V3Pro, the person notification will come faster on the V3Pro because of the local Edge AI being able to immediately send the notification, but that still doesn’t mean that person notification is enabled without cam plus (it isn’t). They should really do a better job at making that clear. I have long told them lots of people will be confused about this for a long, long time.
I have been and still remain strongly against that decision. I had long considered this possibly their worst intentional decision for the last few of years (at least in their top 5 worst decision, if not the worst). One of the few decisions they’ve made that I strongly condemn (and I’m a major Wyze fanboy who loves Wyze, as everyone well knows). I think this V4 not having any included person detection is also easily among their top 5 worst decisions, for reasons I outlined in the other thread as we previously discussed.
Still, I’m going to use the above 2 articles to revive my arguments on this subject. 
I’m sure nobody really wants to hear it though, but they really should hear it. Need to bring it up again in the next AMA too.
I’m just glad to see when it is someone other than me bringing up the issue. The issue doesn’t even affect me, since I have Cam Unlimited anyway, but something doesn’t have to personally affect me for me to see that it’s just not logically tracking.
It shows a lot about Wyze that the devices capable of person detection are restricted from doing so unless you pay. The explanation that cloud storage and processing costs money and that’s why cam plus lite was phased out, although true, appear to be just a rational for a money grab when this on device paywall has been created . It would cost no more for on device person detection and person notifications to be free and available to all except it doesn’t put more money in Wyze’s pocket.
I’ve purchased some Amcrest cameras recently and they have person and vehicle detection built into them…no subscription. Cameras send an email directly or provide in app notifications.
@WildBill - My issue with a lot of the other companies that are used as an example of “Free” detection is that, it’s not quite apples to apples. I looked at Armcrest and their most basic camera (a pan/tilt, 1080p camera) is $35. It does indeed have Person Detection. Which may be enough for people in certain circumstances. But as soon as you want the ability to download your recordings or cloud playback, that’s $6 per month, per camera. 4k video ? that’s another $3.60 per camera per month… Animal/Vehicle/object detection? that’s $7.20 per camera per month. So one Camera can cost you almost $20 per month (per camera) to have the same comparable features as Wyze. I have 15 cameras on the Wyze plan for the $10 a month subscription (unlimited).
I can’t clearly see what this means in practice, I am curious of your feedback and review on this camera in regards to the Free Use. I am just skeptical when folks push back on the subscription model when I look at the Total Cost of Ownership and features because it seems Wyze is still very competitive, if not cheaper in most cases.
Often, folks bring up Eufy cameras that all features are free. But when you price the camera out to get all things needed for your house for 4 or 5 cameras vs. 4 or 5 Wyze Cameras (with CAM PLUS UNLIMITED), there is NO financial comparison. Wyze CRUSHES them in price. Just 4 basic Eufy Cameras with their base recording station (required to make the “free” features work), will cost you about 5x the cost of Wyze Cameras. I could buy 5 Wyze Cameras and buy 5 years of Cam Plus Unlimited and only then is my cost for Wyze products/subscriptions equaling what Eufy charges.
Anyone else done a cost study on Cameras/Subscriptions across all brands? If I were to buy (5) Cam V4’s and get Cam Plus Unlimited ($120 per year). My 5-year cost of cameras is $750 (subscription included). Keep in mind… I have ALL the features of the cameras with Wyze with this cost so you have to ensure that you would add in the same features to the cameras you are buying. In the case of Armcrest, Camera = $34. Subscription to have all features is $20 per camera per month. So 1 of their cameras would cost me $274 per year to have everything. 5 of their cameras with all the features would cost me $1370 PER YEAR!
Can anyone who has bought into another company share their cost for the system?
The only conclusion I can come to for why wyze has locked these feature behind a paywall, since it would cost nothing extra to implement, is that they are trying to force every user into a subscription, So anything that might allow some users to not have a subscription cannot be allowed.
This is a very bad look for wyze (other companies are doing the opposite) and turns off users. But wyze doesn’t seem to care about that too much any more.
Why they lie about it on the support website - that’s another story.
@beemgee - if you see my post above… and compare the math… the other companies are having you pay for it in other ways. Either through a subscription or making their camera’s MUCH more expensive. You may not pay a subscription, but you are PAYING for the feature.
I contend there is no free lunch. You are paying for it one way or the other. It just may not be called a subscription.
Like I mentioned, 5 Wyze Cameras with 5 years of subscriptions costs $750 TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP. Do you have an example of another company that is cheaper (with all features being equal)? And I’m not asking that question antagonistically. I really want to understand the financial differences. I often recommend Wyze vs. other things and want to be sure I am not speaking out of turn.
Amcrest supports RTSP which meas you can roll your own as far as storage goes. I purchased on of their NVRs for my needs and installed disk drives. To each their own, but with that I don’t have any ongoing subscriptions.
For my use yes - the Tapo c120 same price more “free” features. Unfortunately I’m too invested in wyze right now. But my problem with wyze is not the subscription it is that as discussed in the beginning of this thread the support site says “Free person detection” on the V4, and it does not have it. Wyze could implement it in the restrictive way it does on the V3 Pro making it virtually useless, but it simply does not exist for the V4.
I suppose that’s my point, you are trading a subscription for a 1-time payment (looks like their NVR’s are $110? and a 1 TB hard drive is about $75… which may not be big enough if you have several cameras). So it will take you almost 2 years before you are ahead of Wyze on cost. Which isn’t bad in terms of TCO over time and assuming any hardware failures.
This solution isn’t terrible overall and checks a lot of boxes for folks I assume. Of course, you have to buy their cheapest camera to keep that price point down because the next camera (that is outdoor compatible) is $95 (That’s 3 Wyze Camera’s. That bumps your time to recoup your cost a bit. about 2.5 years before you start seeing savings.
I don’t want or need pan & tilt. Bought these for $100 a pair:
Amcrest 2-Pack AI Turret IP PoE Camera w/ 49ft Nightvision, Security IP Camera Outdoor, Built-in Microphone, Human & Vehicle Detection, Active Deterrent,129° FOV, 5MP@20fps 2PACK-IP5M-T1277EB-AI Amazon.com : Amcrest 2-Pack AI Turret IP PoE Camera w/ 49ft Nightvision, Security IP Camera Outdoor, Built-in Microphone, Human & Vehicle Detection, Active Deterrent,129° FOV, 5MP@20fps 2PACK-IP5M-T1277EB-AI : Electronics
I can see your point, and I’d counter that the graphic doesn’t mention Cam Plus at all. There’s a “CLOUD” graphic element for the Cam v3 portion, and I would concede that this represents the Cam Plus features and server processing (without explicitly saying so), but the Cam v3 Pro portion of the graphic leaves this out entirely, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that this indicates—or at the very least implies—that Cam Plus isn’t part of the picture (so to speak) and isn’t necessary to get person detection with this model of camera.
If that’s not overtly deceptive, then it’s at least approaching adjacent territory.
This would’ve been my answer to @Earl.Automation’s question, as well, as I discussed in the Cam v4 announcement topic. I’m not saying that a Tapo C120 would supplant a higher-end camera with a full-fledged subscription from any company, but I think it’s a very good 1:1 replacement for a Wyze Cam v4, and I listed some of those features in that other post where I believe the C120 clearly outperforms the Cam v4.[1]
Not that anyone asked, but here’s the comment that really got me thinking about this whole mess:
I realize that’s not an official Wyze comment, but this was the post that got my attention about the Cam v4’s features, and I think it’s part of what got a Wyze employee into that discussion here on the Forum. In my mind, though, that’s just led to more questions than answers.
I believe this is true even when the Tapo C120 has sent me “Person Detected” notifications for a bird and a defecating dog (which it sees as a “Pet” when it’s not defecating—go figure) in the backyard. The on-board non-subscription AI has been impressive enough that I’m happy to live with the occasional false positive in order to get the extra features without ongoing cost. The positives clearly outweigh the negatives for me. ↩︎
I took a look at this and I would agree. This does seem like a better camera. Do you happen to own one? Do they work well?
Yes, and yes. I thought this was apparent from my post and linked comments. 
