Wyze app 2.50 - Released 3/25/2024

[carverofchoice]

I see things very differently. AMA’s have been awesome and “wishes” are complex. I know we get frustrated when our preferred wishlists aren’t implemented, but I know that it is definitely not the case that they aren’t listening or reading them, because I speak with employees a lot. I know Wyze actually does read the wishlist. The Wishlist in particular is synced by Jason with their internal system. It is also discussed by employees and employees review it sometimes even if they aren’t commenting and influencing particular requests in one way or another. I remember one example I was talking to an employee for the first time a year and a half ago and she told me she was really excited to actually talk with me. She said she’d seen my posts all over the forums, etc and even though she, herself, didn’t post anything in the forums, she did read a bunch of stuff. So I had no idea who this person was at all, but she felt like she already knew me from reading through the forums a lot. It was really interesting. Jason and others have confirmed many times that other employees do read things in here.

I also actually brought up the SD card sharing issue in one of the AMA’s. One of the cofounders answered me directly. He indicated they haven’t been “ignoring” this issue at all, but that they have purposely chosen not to allow sharing the SD due to security and liability concerns. When you “share” a camera, they want to make sure that the new account is only ever able to view events that happen AFTER the share takes place because there are people who use these for lots of different purposes and not all shares are with a spouse. Some might be businesses or sharing with babysitter or any number of other considerations and they need to make sure that people who get the camera shared with them can only see events starting after the share takes place. They can easily do this with the cloud events, but just giving them access to events that happened in the previous days. However, if they shared the MicroSD card, then shared users would be able to access all the footage that exists on the card, including files from before the share. There are complications with that and they said this is why they haven’t changed the settings. It is absolutely not that they “ignored” the desire of some users (including myself) to have this.

I did end up giving the founder several solutions to overcome this objection, and he said he hears me/us and that Wyze will consider such things. Who knows. But even then, User requests have to be considered in light of multiple variables.

When this was brought up to the VP of product in an AMA, he said, regarding the wishlist:

We look at [the wishlist/roadmap] with the team every week

There are many things that decide whether or not a wishlist is implemented, and there most definitely are wishes that get granted specifically because of the suggestion being put on this wishlist.

That’s not to say that all wishes will be implemented. In another thread I listed a bunch of things that generally go into considering user requests/votes for things:

@carverofchoice

There are THOUSANDS of wishlist requests, and often multiple more per day being created.

As Wyze has said in the past, implementing a wishlist request has to be a balance of popular demand as well as MANY other factors. Keep in mind that I am in SUPPORT of this wishlist and want it to be implemented, so don’t think I am arguing against it. I am just trying to explain why it can be reasonable for a wishlist to take a long time or to not ever be implemented in some cases even if it is “popular”.

The following are some common things companies like Wyze weigh against the popularity of their users’ requests/votes

(not all of them are applicable to this specific request, but I plan to refer to this later for others in general too, so I’m going to be thorough…):

TLDR; people can just scan the bolded points quickly

• Technical Feasibility: Assess whether the requested feature or product is technically feasible with the current infrastructure and technology stack, which includes how Wyze’s app is currently structured vs needing to wait for a future revamp of their whole app first. It’s also possible that the older cameras don’t have the necessary resources (processor, RAM, etc) to even support doing this on the SD card. When I try to move forward or backward on some of the other cams, sometimes the camera stalls out. I think the older cams may not even be CAPABLE of supporting this. They could probably do it on some of the newer cams with more powerful resources though. We just don’t know for sure, but they probably do know.
• Resource Allocation: Evaluate the resources required, including personnel, time, and budget, to implement the feature or product. Don’t misunderstand, I think this wishlist would be a GREAT ONE for the year of the camera, and I voted for it and support it. However, that would also mean taking away those same resources from other things that may be a higher priority in other ways for something that frankly wouldn’t necessarily bring back in what it costs to create it. It is more of a luxury feature than a necessary one. A Luxury feature I WANT and would love…but I can still do most of that manually or in other ways, so I haven’t LOST functionality without it.
• Alignment with Company Goals I’m not saying this or any other one specifically does or doesn’t qualify, just saying this is a consideration they have to balance in general.
• Market Demand: Do most or all other competitors offer it or are there lots who still don’t? Does it address a pain point for a significant portion of the user base?
• User Impact: How would each of the thousands of requests impact the user experience and satisfaction? Not just of those most vocally requesting it, but the whole userbase.
• Compatibility: Is it compatible with the rest of their hardware, software, services or general ecosystem? And not just functionally, but in general. For example, I’d think they were off their rocker and start thinking of ditching them if they started selling Goat Milk instead of tech products, no matter how many people requested it on the wishlist.
• Regulatory and Legal Compliance: Something might be legal in some states but not in others, and it might not be worth it in some cases to try to comply with every state’s minutia and instead scrap the whole idea, or it might be worth it, and just require some extra resources to implement it. Point is that it’s a consideration for various requests.
• Security and privacy: a lot could be said on this, but most of it is obvious
• User Feedback: including things beyond the wishlist such as support tickets, surveys and user reviews, and even community engagement (also, while votes are one consideration in the wishlist, they have also mentioned how other things like analyzing thread activity, etc can also be a consideration)
• Competition: in an AMA, the VP of product mentioned this was a big reason they were going to stop doing “Lifestyle Products” as he said: “Products like the Watch, which end up being fashion accessories, have been too crowded and complex for us to make significant traction in, so you’ll see less investment in these “Lifestyle” product lines as we continue to refine our focus back on these three core areas.”
• Scalability: Can it accommodate a growing userbase? Will it cause issues farther down the road?
• Technical or Design Debt: This is actually one of Wyze’s biggest struggles right now. In this case, they already have a lot of limitations from the design debt of the foundational block of their app. This makes some things really hard to do, or to go back and change as far as it relates to UI updates. That could be an issue in this FF/RW wishlist since it would require UI changes. In other wishlists, they may also have to consider whether something would cause technical debt for future development or ecosystem expansion and compatibility concerns, including if they try to make any of their compatible with Matter standards.
• Cost-Benefit Analysis: Will the expected benefits outweigh all the costs of implementation? This is a HUGE one that can’t be overstated.
• Mass Appeal: Is the wishlist something that will benefit and be used by the majority of their users, or is it an edge case request or niche benefit that the majority would not use (this has been part of the rationale for why RTSP and API ecosystem integrations haven’t been implemented, since while a lot of us most active and most outspoken users want them, the majority of users would not benefit from them and they want to first devote resources and priorities toward things that almost EVERYONE can benefit from before they do things that will benefit smaller select percentages/groups).
  • Part of this could involve taking into consideration things like user base demographics, market research, surveys/feedback, user persona analysis, usability testing, data analytics, feedback aggregation, user impact assessments, user inclusivity, market differentiation, growth potential, long term impact, and many other things on this list)
• User Opposition: The wishlist often doesn’t take into account whether implementing a feature might face opposition from a significant portion of the user base or raise concerns. I have seen tons of wishlist requests that I STRONGLY oppose, but there is no downvote option, and most of the other people who would oppose it aren’t in the thread because they are only looking for things they want and ignore the rest.
• Integration: How easily it integrates into Wyze’s current ecosystem
• Innovation: Is it an innovative and unique option that could differentiate Wyze from competitors
• Longevity: Does it have long-term relevance or a short-term trend that’s not worth the investment
• Sustainability: Including ongoing maintenance requirements and whether something aligns with the company’s sustainability goals
• Phased implementation: Wyze actually does a lot of this. They will introduce something on a new product, and then depending on the response and use-metrics, they will then sometimes expand it to other models if it is well-received and worth the time and effort to do so.
• Market research: To understand the size of the potential user base that could benefit or be reached by it to justify prioritizing the feature/product
• User Education: would it require extensive user education for them to be able to use the feature, and are users willing to invest that time in learning it?

I’m sure there are a ton of others that Wyze takes into account that I either overlooked, forgot, etc. But, my main point is that it doesn’t really matter solely how long ago someone requested something, or even necessarily how many people voted for it. Those are certainly factors that matter, but there are dozens of variables that go into considering whether or not to implement a specific request. A wishlist may have a total green flag on 90% of the variables, but have one or 1 or 2 others with a red flag holding it up in a way in which another wishlist request with fewer votes actually gets priority ahead of it because of other factors. What I love about the way Wyze handles our requests is that they actually RESPOND to every request and label the expectation. In this case, Wyze didn’t PROMISE this request, but they gave us the courtesy of informing us they weren’t planning to implement it. They labeled it as “MAYBE Later.” They get around to telling us on each request if it is “Probably Not” or “Maybe Later” or “In Progress.” If they tell us Probably Not or Maybe Later, they have absolutely responded. It may not be the answer we hoped for, but at least they responded. That’s more than 99.99% of every other company out there. I acknowledge they won’t do the majority of the things I make requests for, but I am glad they give me the courtesy of responding. I’m not entitled to get everything I ask for. I bought their product either knowing it doesn’t have a feature, or when I get it and find out it doesn’t have that, They allow me to return it within 30 days for a refund so I can find something that DOES have what I want. That is 100% reasonable.

If I choose to keep a product, knowing it doesn’t support the thing I want, that’s on me. I can hope they consider changing things in the future, but I’m not entitled to it. I can return it when I find out it doesn’t have something and get something else instead.

Then I use this wishlist as "I’m already totally satisfied with my purchase, because you gave me the chance to get a refund and I decided it fit what I wanted already, but It would be SOOOO COOOL if you also did this." and then I get excited anytime they do add something, instead of being angry until they do so, which makes absolutely no sense to me. If I’m angry, I should’ve either not bought it or returned it when I found out it didn’t have it.

Again, I voted for and support this wishlist, and definitely am excited at the news that they appear to be working on something for this here. I am just saying, I’m not mad it took so long because I knew it didn’t exist when I got my product, and I chose to keep it still, and I realize there are a TON of variables for them to consider when deciding which wishlist items take priority. But I get an update about every wishlist item they complete, and they are always adding new stuff for us. Here is a list of several Wishlist items they’ve added due to user input:

Wishes Granted

These are the items requested by you, our wonderful community members, that have been launched.

And that doesn’t count all the things they added that were requested outside the wishlist, nor all the rules and actions and other things that are aggregated elsewhere. They DO add things for us, but again, there are THOUSANDS of requests and they have to weigh all the other factors to determine what gets priority.

I guess the overall point is that they DO read the wishlist, and they do listen, but there are a lot of things to consider for each wishlist request and deciding which ones get priority over the THOUSANDS of other requests when they have limited resources. Asking in AMAs helps, voting and commenting in the thread can be helpful and are one of the variables that matter, but there are several other considerations too. If every user posted and told Wyze they wish they would make a magical flying unicorn and they didn’t do it, wouldn’t mean they didn’t “listen” though. They care what the community wants, but there are also many other things to consider.