Indepth review of using Battery Bank as UPS for V3 cameras

Cameras
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I had a previous thread asking opinions of my setup. There were many good and valid points for me to consider. As such, I did a pretty intense study/experiment of my setup and I wanted to list the reasons WHY I like what I have going.

The amazon link to the battery power bank I’m using is here. There are others, and I have tried others, but this is my highly recommended one and the reasons below.

First; why would I want this instead of just plugging in the camera to it’s wall wart into a 120v AC outlet. Well, sometimes there are power outages, power bumps, brownouts, etc. My routers, switches, internet modem, etc. are all on a UPS system, so even in a power outage, (Assuming it isn’t for many hours), my internet and home network will still be up. I should also want my cameras up. Also, during power bumps, surges, brownouts, etc. the camera would normally need to reboot because of power drops. Do this enough times and you can hurt your cameras. With this power backup, the cameras don’t see the outage. Anyway, on to the reasons I like this particular battery power bank.

  1. Price: $25. Many times you’ll see a coupon and can get it around $19 or so.
  2. Size: It’s about the size of my Iphone 14 pro; a little thicker
  3. Ports: It can charge; or in my case OPERATE 3 devices at a time. The max 5v output on USB-A is 3 amps. The V3 cameras use LESS than 1 amp. They must, because the provided Wyze power pack is only 1 amp, so in order to not overheat and overwork, there must be SOME overhead. Thus, the camera doesn’t draw a full amp. FWIW: I don’t do continuous recording, only event recording. But again, the provided power pack is only 1 amp. (1000ma). So this battery power bank with a 3amp total output can handle up to 3 cameras. NOTE: IF you were going to do 3 cameras on this, you’d need a USB-A splitter to get the 3rd camera. Reason being, you’ll need to use USB-C as the INPUT (3 amps) so you can handle the 3 amps max to the cameras (1 amp each). The USB-Micro input charging can only handle up to 2.1 amps. This is what I use for my power bank because I’m only using 2 cameras. If the battery bank is 100% charged, and the cameras are operating from the pass-through charging circuit, then the 2.1 amps PROBABLY isn’t enough for 3 cameras. You’ll need to use the USB-C 3 amp for charging, and USB-A splitter for one of the USB ports to get the 3rd camera in.
  4. The size of the battery power bank: 30,800 mAh is more than enough to operate the cameras. At 100%, and 2 v3 cameras plugged in, I disconnected the power to the power pack feeding/charging the battery power bank. No disruption to the cameras. Kept on streaming. After 35 minutes, I checked the remaining power on the power bank; it was at 97%. So, that averages to about 5% every hour. Meaning, it can probably keep the cameras going for 10+ hours. Again, I only record events, which I purposely created; so if continuously recording, the time would be less. But still MANY HOURS. Hopefully enough until commercial power comes back on. (Except during hurricanes probably).
  5. The battery power bank DOES HAVE Pass-Through charging: I tested this. At 100% when I disconnected the power to the battery bank, the cameras were unaffected. There was a slight “Click” noise from the camera. Probably seeing the transfer FROM the charging circuit TO the batteries. But it didn’t affect the camera’s operation. When I plugged back in the power pack to the battery bank, there was the same slight “Click” noise on the camera. Probably sensing the change over FROM getting it’s power from the battery to that of the charging circuit.
  6. The protection circuits: This battery power bank has protection against over voltage, under voltage, over current, over charging, over temperature. Once the battery bank is charged back to 100%, the battery power bank is COMPLETELY COLD. There is no warmth at all. Meaning, the batteries in the power bank are NOT continuously being charged once they are at 100%. On a side note: Fully charged, and nothing plugged into the battery power bank, it was still at 100% charged after 3 months sitting in my night stand drawer.
  7. Excellent reviews: Over 18,000 reviews, with 83% being 4&5 stars. And if you review the 1-star ratings, you’ll find MOST of the reviewers are… how do you politely say… “Mentally Challenged”. They complain that it’s NOT REALLY 30,800mah. Well, that’s because battery banks are rated at their LOWEST USABLE voltage. (Which is 3.7 volts). At 5 volts, which MOST USB DEVICES USE, it’s basically 22,800mah. (Still 113.95 watt hours). Just that at a higher voltage, the current is reduced. Other negative reviews point out that they either got a lemon (Which does happen occasionally), or they simply can’t read and don’t understand. e.g. they think the power bank keeps turning off. REALITY: The DISPLAY shuts off after 30 seconds. There’s a button to turn on the display (for another 30 seconds), but there’s no on/off switch. If there’s NO CURRENT DRAIN from the outputs, then it doesn’t operate. It automatically turns on if it’s charging itself or charging devices.

I could probably think of some more attributes I like, but I think this is enough. You DO HOWEVER have to provide your own Power Pack to charge/operate the battery power bank. It can charge either with USB-Micro (Minimum 2.1amp power pack) OR USB-C (Standard 3amp power pack). The USB-C can ALSO BE an OUTPUT. I’ve used this before on my phones and tablets, but most times, and for the cameras, I just use the standard USB-A outputs. I use the USB-Micro for maintaining the power bank and operating the cameras. At 2.1 amps, that’s still MORE than what the 2 cameras will need. Anyway; hope someone can get some benefit from this thread.
Later.
Mike

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Glad you’ve had a good experience with this setup and it provides a potential solution for those looking for backup power for their cameras.

I do think it is important to note that even when they have passthrough power, unless a device is specifically designed to stop charging the batteries when they hit 100% and start simply providing power to the attached devices (something that can be difficult to impossible to know without getting detailed circuit diagrams or tearing it apart and mapping it out), these batteries and battery banks aren’t really designed for constant power use in this fashion. I.e. they don’t have a “ups” or “standby” mode necessarily. The click you’re hearing may be indicative that it is switching from true passthrough to battery, or it could just be a slight change in voltage or even the battery pack itself’s charging circuit turning off.

I guess I’d equate it to using one of those “ground lift” 3 prong to 2 prong adapters you can get to run something off an old ungrounded outlet. Many people do it, rarely is it an issue, but people doing it should be aware of the potential risks, however low they may be.

Personally, I’d rather grab the low end cheap UPS models. Depending on time of year, they can be gotten around the same price and are designed for “standby” use. Granted they are much larger so may not be an ideal solution for every situation.

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Hi Mike,

You may want to ask @seapup to move this to the Tips and Tricks forum section so it doesn’t get lost.

With all of your testing, I trust you when you are saying it ihas pass-through charging. I just wish they would include that information in the specifications, but then it is Amazon. I would usually check the manufacturer’s site, which I have not.

Another items stands out is that a click is heard. If it was pass-through, the cam should not know if it is connected to the power pack or a wall outlet. Sounds like there is some switching going on (msec/nsec). I would think pass-through would be transparent like the UPS I have on my PC and Entertainment Center.

I do plan to try out this method. Thanks for the details.

EDIT: You may want to remove V3 from the title and list all Wyze cams or would that not be valid because you only tested this on V3 cams?

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The problem is “pass through” is a vague and unofficial term.

In the UPS world:
If it was “online” that would mean the batteries are constantly being charged and the camera is only ever seeing battery power, and would have no idea when it switched (no click or anything). However currently lithium batteries do not do well with “online” type designs, those still use SLA batteries due to their ability to be float charged constantly. Online UPSes are very expensive and not something most will ever encounter, they’re in data centers and other mission critical applications. It would be nice to see this feature in one of the portable power stations, the LiFePo4 batteries might actually be able to handle it if done correctly. But so far it doesn’t exist.

“Line Interactive” means the camera gets true “pass through” wall power (or wall wart in this case) and only runs off the batteries when power into the battery pack is lost. That’s how UPS mode on the portable power stations current works, and the 30msec switchover is a lot higher than traditional UPSes, which causes issues with some devices. That could explain the click OP is hearing, but doesn’t necessarily. It just seems unlikely that these little battery banks have that circuitry in them, but who knows.

Now, the question is, even if this unit does a line interactive type design, is it smart enough to stop charging the batteries when they are at 100% (or just shy of it)? Many battery powered cameras have built in some functionality like this, especially the ones that are marketed along with solar panels. But considering even the large portable power stations haven’t quite gotten UPS mode to be as good as a traditional UPS (due to the design difference of having to cut power to the Lithium batteries, vs a UPS that can leave them floating all the time), I’m a bit skeptical.

Would be interesting to see if there are any brands/models out there that specifically and clearly show they are operating in a line-interactive mode and have a BMS in them specifically designed to manage the battery charging to start at like 95% and stop at like 98%. When done right and using in this fashion, you’d end up seeing it hovering in the high 90s constantly and hardly ever charging the battery. Basically what you see with most modern laptops and properly designed battery powered cameras.

Honestly, when it comes to these no-name brands, I’m very wary.

Extremely over simplified:

Online UPS:
Wall Power → Battery → Device

Interactive UPS:
Wall power → Device
… … … … … …|
… … … … .Battery

Ignore the dots, just making it line up

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My Bluetti powerstation has UPS pass through, but I think it still switches over very quickly. So is that true pass-thorugh? It says so on the display.

Bluetti

This is my second LiFePo4 power station. My first Jackery is lithium. My Audew was my first LiFePo4 power station.

I currently have two APC 125w UPS for two of my indoors cams, but Mike’s alternative would be cheaper and possibly last longer. I figured it would not be cost effective to buy multiple power stations.

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Yes they are all using line interactive and have approximately 20-30 msec switchover time. Many devices handle this fine (especially ones with wall warts since the capacitor in there can help fill that gap) but high efficiency PC power supplies and some other devices will reboot.

Traditional UPS switchover is typically under 10msec

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I guess the main problem is what they define as “pass through”.

True passthrough would mean it just passing through wall power independent of the battery circuit, which only kicks in when needed, which is how traditional UPSes work as well as the portable power stations (albeit a tad slower switchover) and is what Line Interactive refers to.

If it is constantly charging the battery and running the attached device off the battery, that’s more of an online mode and not something lithium batteries or their internal BMS were really designed to do.

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I always thought the switch was in front of the battery with the device always connecting to the battery. I guess not?

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Nope, battery is essentially in “parallel” with a relay and some other circuitry.

Constantly running on battery is the best, cleanest power. Music studios, high end home theaters, etc use that setup, as do data centers and mission critical applications, but they use SLA batteries and are quite expensive setups. But total isolation from the grid is worth the money in those cases, more for noise and fluctuation reasons than switchover time.

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You spoiled my fantasy, so to speak. :grinning:

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Thank you for sharing! I’ve long wished for a good, affordable option. I’ve even tried several different batteries claiming to do passthrough, and none of them have worked well. If this truly works well, then I’m excited to get and try one! Especially since it also doubles as a splitter.

Usually a clicking noise means the camera rebooted. Are you absolutely sure it didn’t reboot the camera? The camera would still boot up quickly and run as normal, but it might temporarily restart. This is the problem I had with so many other batteries I tried. I wonder what else the clicking could be. I’ve only ever heard clicking for 2 reasons: 1) The camera reboots, or 2) Nightvision switches on/off.

I did! I just ordered one. Under $25 is a great deal if it works out.

Thanks for sharing Mike! I’ve been wanting some of these for a few critical cameras (I won’t do it for all 50+cams I have, just a few of the most critical ones). I also have my router, modem, and other things with battery backup already, but not many of my cameras because I didn’t want to spend money a ton of UPS’s just for a camera. This will work out as a great alternative. I’ll give it a try.

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So are you going to do a teardown and create a detailed diagram of the circuitry so we can determine if it is truly fit for purpose :rofl:

Probably wouldn’t actually help much, the BMS have turned into almost SOCs now where it is hard to tell what is going on inside. though how things are wired up may still give some idea. Mixed with a couple of the inline USB power meters, might actually be able to figure it out. Glad you volunteered to do all that :grin:

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I second that motion. :+1:

Doesn’t he have a maven cash account?

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Heh, I won’t rule it out! Honestly, I’m likely to mostly do external tests.

Product does claim to have protection against overcharge, overdischarge, overcurrent, short circuit, overvoltage, overtemperature.

The main tests for me will be:

  • Does Passthrough charging REALLY WORK?
  • What is the clicking heard at power disconnection?
  • How long will a camera stream for at full charge?
  • What happens when the battery hits 100%?
    • Does it really stop charging, and if so, at what point does it start again, because a lot of batteries slowly lose charge over time even when they aren’t being used, and presumably it would mean that it has to charge a little bit again every so often just to top it off again, though this also wears out the battery quicker. On the other hand, some will have the battery be used as the primary source of power, which means it’s ALWAYS draining, and then while plugged in, it just gets topped off constantly and this is a much bigger wear on the battery, killing it fast.
    • I might connect everything through a couple of power monitors on each side of the battery to see if/how the power input and output change.
  • How long does a camera last on a full charge?
  • How fast does this battery charge? - can it recharge faster than a camera will drain it if I use a strong enough solar panel as the charging mechanism, and then will the camera last overnight long enough that it doesn’t empty the battery before the sun mostly recharges it again?

If some of the above tests pass, I will still certainly initially put it somewhere that is less flammable and have a sensor nearby that can report heat or fire issues. But I know people who have used cheap battery backup devices like these for under $10:

image

And the people who have used those say that they work fine for them. I’ve been tempted to get some.

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Guess when I buy mine, I will add a Thermal Containment Bag.

Newtex Fire Containment Bag - Lithium Ion Battery Thermal Runaway Safety Kit for Aircraft, Fire Resistant, Flame Retardant, Meets FAA Standards

I was wondering if the bag came with gloves. Tongs would be nice as well.

haha …

  • This kit includes X20 Z-Flex Gloves to protect hands from extreme heat and a Z-Sil Silica Fire Blanket to knock down flames and fire barrier while placing the device in the fire containment bag.

TCB
TCB614×511 317 KB

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Excellent points. I want to reply to both you Dave, and ssummerlin.

I’m very familiar with UPS systems. Especially the very high end ones. Part of my job for many many years. The high end UPS systems basically have the AC voltage coming into the UPS, going through a “Converter” (Rectifier system) and that goes to a charging system which keeps the batteries charged. The batteries in turn go through an “INVERTER” which takes it from DC BACK to AC. The devices plugged into the AC outlets NEVER EVER see the INCOMING AC voltage from the commercial power. It only sees the AC voltage that was Inverted from the DC batteries. This is the best and cleanest form of power. I have used this on a lot of communications equipment at air traffic control facilities, first responder radio equipment, and many other places. This is a much more expensive method of Uninterrupted Power Systems. There’s a lot of regulating and cleaning that goes on.

The standard consumer grade UPS system people purchase; e.g. APC, Cyberpower, and most others at best buy, walmart, sam’s, amazon, etc. don’t do this. They DO SWITCH the AC power. The AC power comes into the UPS system and is branched / split. It goes to the output AC outlets as well as the battery charging circuit. Matter of fact, if you ever have a power surge in your house and you’re near the UPS that’s connected to your PC, TV, entertainment, etc. you’ll actually hear the CLICK. (And probably the beep) Granted, it’s fast and 99% of the time the devices won’t shut off, reboot, etc. But it most definitely is switching. Now, some of the BETTER UPS’s (Even though they are switching) do use high end AC capacitors. This is what buys time for the switch over to the inverted DC to AC power. This is why laptop computers basically cannot be fried. They run totally off of the DC power. The power adapter is simply keeping the laptop batteries charged.

As for the clicking noise I hear from the camera; I’m pretty sure it’s the change in voltage or the momentary on/off of the camera. But NOT OFF long enough to shut off. That is one really good things about DC voltage devices. They actually bleed off slower than AC devices. Therefor, you have some time. You see this is most DC voltage devices. Pull the power or disconnect the batteries and it will still have power momentarily. I’m pretty sure the click I hear is the ON/OFF of the camera. But again, being it’s a DC voltage camera, and the switchover on the UPS (Battery power bank) in this situation is relatively quick; the camera isn’t off long enough to do a reboot. It just seems a momentary LOWER voltage than normal.

The only real concern I ever had with the battery power bank method is ensuring that the pass-through charging DID INDEED stop charging the batteries. Which I believe in the model I’m using completely does. I believe the over charging system is doing it’s job. If the battery bank is charging for a while, you can definitely feel a temperature on the case. It’s not hot, but you know it’s charging. But once the battery bank is 100% charged it is completely cold. Same as if it was unplugged (with nothing drawing power from it) and it sat there for days, weeks, or months. Just as cold.

The thing is, the only real difference between a quality Pass Through Battery Power Bank and a traditional 600va AC UPS system is: The UPS has an INVERTER to invert the DC BACK to AC. And because it’s designed for much more wattage; the battery is much bigger. But the actual concept is the same. It just doesn’t have a converter. The converter is in the AC Power Pack. (Whether it’s the one for the Battery bank or the one connected to the v3 camera). The battery bank is simply the MIDDLE PORTION of an UPS system. Voltage regulation. It has it’s protection circuits to stop overcharging, overvoltage, overcurrent, and overtemperature. It’s not inverting back to AC and there’s no Converter section to charge the battery. Again, that’s in the power pack plugged into the wall.

I’ve seen also many DC UPS systems. I have one I use for my WIFI Mesh remote nodes. Power pack feeds the DC UPS which charges the battery; the battery then goes out and powers 12 volts DC to the Mesh remote node. I’ve even seen DC UPS with UPS outputs as well as 12v, 9v, 5.5x2.1mm plugs. I would think they are just bigger versions of what I’m doing for the camera. And it makes sense. My battery bank seems fine for a camera because there isn’t much power consumption from a camera. It would probably only run my network router for less than an hour. Whereas a large DC UPS or a traditional AC UPS has massive 12v 7-12ah batteries in them. Usually more than one.

And whether it’s the battery bank, DC UPS, or AC UPS system; they all seem to be using the same batteries. Lithium or sealed lead. Sealed lead acid batteries are safer than lithium, and THAT is the one concern I have with using battery banks. But technology has come a long way. There was a time when we were warned about leaving cell phones plugged in. Even when they used Nickle Cad and Nickle metal batteries. Now, ALL cell phones use lithium. They don’t seem to have problems with over charging, being left on the charger, blowing up in someone’s pocket, etc.

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Yes I’ve worked with both online (device only sees battery power) and interactive (audible switch between line and battery).

As mentioned in a previous post, online systems still rely on SLA batteries since they would eat through lithium ones quickly. That’s not to say they aren’t toying with the idea and trying different things, but at least commercial grade, that’s still the case. However I see the portable power stations (with LiFePo4 batteries) as a potential opportunity to have low cost “online” UPSes in the consumer market. Yes the batteries won’t last as long as if they were only there for standby use, however the much higher charge cycle count on LiFePo4 and a decent BMS could theoretically make it practical.

I disagree with you there. It is not as simple as removing the transformer, rectifier and inverter from the design and magically becoming a DC UPS. You still need circuitry to separately power the device and charge the batteries, manage the charge of the batteries, and switch over quickly if power is lost. “Pass through” and “online” are not the same thing (at least they aren’t supposed to be, but since pass through is a fairly general term, it is anyone’s guess). The fact that the battery pack is not hot doesn’t mean it isn’t constantly floating or topping off the batteries, impacting their lifespan. The issue will be when one of those cells hits end of life, and potentially goes into reverse voltage, now you’re relying on that protection circuitry to try and cut the charge off before it becomes a hazard. Problem is, the other batteries in the pack will now continue charging that cell trying to bring it into balance. To avoid that, you need protection circuitry in every individual cell, which well known, name brand stuff has, but has been seen many times that cheap Chinese made stuff does not.

We even know that as recently as ~10 years ago, cell phones would overheat and catch fire because people were for whatever reason charging them on their bed or under their pillow, and the battery would go into thermal runaway.

Things have come a long way, but people still need to give Lithium the respect it deserves. If a battery pack isn’t specifically listed as having a UPS/line interactive mode or being designed for constant charge/discharge use, I personally would be wary of it.

The ideal setup for this would be a battery pack that stops charging at 99%, starts at either 95 or 90%, and the vast majority of the time, the batteries are not charging at all, it is only supplying enough power to run the connected devices directly from the input, and has the circuitry to switch very quickly when input power is lost. But I’m just very doubtful that a $25 power bank is doing that. I’d be very suspicious of whatever that click is, it sounds like the camera is rebooting, or at least experiencing some sort of interruption (assuming the click comes from the camera and not the battery pack). If it is seeing ~5v all the time, it would not care whether that 5v is passing through the battery pack or sourcing from the battery pack.

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I received this battery and ran some initial tests.

It’s not a perfect solution as a Camera UPS (UNINTERUPTED Power Supply) since from everything I can tell, it does interrupt the power and restart the camera during certain event changes, including when the battery receives or loses power, or sometimes when you press the battery power button to see what percent of power the battery has. This also causes the SD card to lose recording capabilities for the 1 minute segment during the time the camera is restarting, so there will be blank recordings like the following:

image
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Note that my tests were with a new V4 Camera.

On the bright side, the battery does perform better than all the others I have tried in the past. It does switchover quickly and reload the camera right away, so the only loss is that SD card 1 minute segment that was still in the RAM when the power loss occurred and never got transferred to the flash memory before it was wiped from the RAM. It also absolutely drops the live stream whenever the power status changes while it reboots.

So, it’s not a bad solution and will be a good option in situations where the power may be out for longer than a few seconds…but it’s not uninterruptible power, unfortunately. :sob: So far, there still aren’t a lot of great options for that. But I still appreciate everyone who takes the time to share options to consider.

I will probably return this one to Amazon since it’s not what I was hoping for though.

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Wow. That was quick. I was just getting to bed and I saw your post.

Thank you for investigating.

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Are you speaking of the " Pxwaxpy" battery bank. I am using this on 2 V3’s and there is no interruptions at all. I have heard some say that using the USB-C output has on some done some interruptions when pressing the power button. But I am using the 2 regular USB-A outputs for my 2 v3’s and using Micro-Usb for input charging. I haven’t had any interruptions whatsoever. I’ve experimented numerous times. Mind you, I am not continuously recording. Only recording event. But when I did my experimenting, I was monitoring the cameras on my phone, watching the bandwidth meter AND the clock “Seconds”. I can put the button to see the battery charge mete; and I can unplug the battery bank from the wall to simulate loss of AC power. The cameras didn’t budge at all. Real time clock still counting, Bandwidth meter still rolling. Not sure what you’re running into. If you’re using the USB-C, try just using the USB Micro for charging. (2 amp or higher power adapter).
Mike

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