I think the idea of Wyze doing HomeKit would be great. I have commented many times hoping to get a better update but it seems hardware (Lock and Keypad) is what Wyze is focused on at the moment. What I understand about Wyze’s approach on HomeKit is they want all of their products to work with HomeKit as soon as the integration is live. That would be great but is not necessarly what customers want. I think a lot of us would be fine with the bulbs, plugs and lock at first. Sense and cams can be a stretch goal later on. The reason I dont put Sense as a priority is because at this time it requires a cam and the cams will not work with HomeKit. The best approach for Wyze is to build a standalone hub for sense which can be used as the connector for Wyze to HomeKit integration. This would allow the sensors to show up in HomeKit and then Wyze can build the new v3 cams with HomeKit Secure Video capabilities from day one.
I would not worry about HomeKit support for the sensors. I have 14 sensors which are not yet a year old and none of them are reliable. Magnets no longer work, notifications no longer work, some of them drain new batteries in less than 24 hours. The longest any of them has stayed connected is three weeks. Everything else on my network is as solid as a rock, including my five Wyze cams.
Doug Reed
I would also welcome HomeKit compatibility, but I think it’s important to remember that Wyze is not actually making hardware. They are, in fact, simply consuming the “white label” or “white box” services of the actual hardware manufacturer.
Whether native or via bridge device, Wyze would need to source this hardware from a provider.
With that said, I’m not convinced at their ability (nor desire) to make HomeKit compatibility happen, particularly due to cost constraints.
Has anyone priced even the entry level HomeKit video devices?
They certainly aren’t $20, nor are the sub-$100. Wyze’ current target market doesn’t seem much interested in paying the costs associated with that level of hardware/software integration.
EDIT: typo/readability
In the a case I’d be happy with an API. Then I can make it work with homebridge
Thank you for confirming my earlier point.
lol, You’re welcome?
Come to think of it I think apple dropped the hardware requirements for HomeKit integration. The adoption rate for HomeKit enabled devices was too low.
You are correct, video is a no go with the current cameras, they are still trying for sensors and bulbs and future products.
@Jjjjjjjj you might try doing a search for HomeBridge I think people have tried work arounds to get them to work
As far as I am aware they did not drop the requirement that is restricting the current line of cameras.
FWIW, this is why Wyze hardware and Apple Homekit compatibility is unlikely at this point - and again, it is largely due to the fact that Wyze is not creating hardware.
Additional info here: Page Not Found - Apple Developer
EDIT: It’s worth noting the following:
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The above link also includes reference to “non-commercial” devices; they do not require the Apple Authentication Coprocessor, so @Jjjjjjjj it is entirely possible for a skilled end-user to make this work…
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Further info on doing so may be found here: homebridge-dafang - npm
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To be clear, I’m not saying it’s technically impossible, but I am definitely saying it is absolutely, unequivocally not possible that Wyze could bring Homekit support as a future feature of the current hardware they are selling.
This statement is “absolutely, unequivocally” incorrect,
Out of respect for Wyze as a startup company, I have to request that people use this forum as is intented (i.e. to ask questions to Wyze and each other, desired features, etc) , and to please refrain from making statements or declarations that are conclusions based on an assumed significant understanding of the underlying technical knowledge, and all other pertinent information.
Making such statements is not helping anyone as it amounts to a lot of misinformation.
All 3 statements—along with many other declarations made throughout this entire thread—are stated with an authoritative air of confidence, and in doing so it becomes pretty clear that almost no one here making such declarations has any minimally significant understanding of many relevant areas, which includes:
—what Homekit’s MiFi/commercial certification program’s requirements are
—what MCU’a Wyze choose to put in which of their products and what are they capable of
—how HAP actually works
I don’t know why you refer to the introduction blurb webpage for Apple’s non-commercial HAP, unless you’re referring only to sentence regarding the requirement for commercial product to have an Apple Authentication Coprocessor, in which case this is no longer true. I.e. The webpage is dated.
The security requirements did NOT change, but the coprocessor was made optional A significant number of manufacturers choose to use it anyway out of convenience, but performing all of that yourself is computationally demanding on a resource-constrained MCU.
Here’s a link that can at least help people understand A LITTLE BIT of how HAP works (mostly only with respect to what the change in the coprocessor was about):
https://www.imore.com/how-homekits-software-authentication-works
Everyone please also understand that Apple’s changing the use of the authentication/cryptographic coprocessor from ‘required’ to ‘optional’ in the HomeKit certification process;
—** does NOT mean that Apple has made it ‘easy’ or ‘easier’ ** for companies to make HomeKit-certified products (what the media widely reported to Apple’s PR benefit).
—does NOT mean that Apple at all changed changed its security requirements
—the software-only approach is a technical challenge to implement into a product…especially while keeping it compatible with all the other chosen ‘smart home’ platforms. So it takes time to engineer,
— Wyze has told us most recently that they might be able to overcome this challenge and presumably other ones that are there too in the HomeKit certification process, specifically with their bulbs and outlets.
Thank you for sharing.
I’m certainly not beyond recognizing when the information I have shared is incorrect, and per your post, it does appear that my information re: hardware authentication is dated.
That said, it’s only through this type of discourse that we can grow and learn - and I have learned today that Apple does support software encryption and perfect forward secrecy via software solution.
With that said, I will reiterate the following:
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By Wyze’ admission, the cameras hardware does not support HomeKit required video processing. This does certainly mean that the current camera hardware will not gain HomeKit support, unless Apple’s own requirements change.
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Regarding hardware - Wyze is absolutely constrained by hardware they purchase, vs. hardware they create. That is to say that HomeKit comparability requires either a) the authentication hardware discussed above, or b) the processing power to manage the software authentication process. I don’t presume the hardware they purchase to have either the proper authentication hardware, nor the processing power to perform said software calculation. I say this because, if it did, I presume they would not be unable to market this hardware and maintain profit margins at the current price point. In other threads, I have suggested using a HomeKit plug to manage automation of the camera, and was rebuffed by those shocked at the $20+ price of said plug, in light of the cost for a Wyze outlet.
It does not take an MBA nor technical degree to observe and understand market dynamics. Show me a sub-$100 HomeKit compatible camera. Regarding lights, Philips hue has been in the HomeKit game since the beginning, and their multi-color bulbs are roughly $40+ each.
- I use and enjoy Wyze products and wish them continued success. But it’s tiresome to see their user base requesting high-level features at bargain basement prices. As a user myself, I am simply trying to share knowledge that allows others to better understand the underlying constraints. We can all hope and wish for HomeKit support, but in the face of continued “we’re working on it” responses to continued “when will it be available” inquiries, it’s reasonable to temper those expectations with the reality that - not only is this difficult given the nature of the current product line - it’s my opinion that said support will never materialize. This, of course, does not preclude the potential that future hardware solutions from Wyze could have HomeKit support, but it is to say that bringing said support to the current $20 camera , $8 bulb, and the like is more than unlikely. And when they do create products with said support, I presume much of the current user base will be astonished by the increase in purchase price.
Just out of curiosity Hue offers bulbs very like Wyze’s so I am unsure why you chose to compare Hue’s multicolor bulbs which are significantly more expensive?
I recently bought the Hue A19 2 pack at a big box retailer for 19.95. This would be more of an Apples to Apples comparison. Still more expensive than Wyze but not horrendously so.
The Hue A19 has much closer specs to the Wyze offering I believe. What I am interested in is the TCO of each bulb. But while I have some A19’s that are now 2+ years old but it will be awhile before we have similar data on Wyze.
One other point you may want to factor into your thoughts. Wyze does indeed buy OEM equipment. But they have had the hardware custom modified for themselves by the manufacturer. This is discussed by Wyze employees several places in these forums.
To what extent and in what specifics the hardware is modified I honestly don’t recall. But while I agree with your point the current crop of cameras will probably not see HomeKit certification I am unwilling to say never. Things change and technology is advancing at a tremendous pace.
EDIT: I did not mention but the Firmware is of course also written by Wyze not the OEM. So Wyze even using OEM hardware brings a lot of uniqueness to the table.
Great questions/observations! I can assure you I did not mean to intentionally subvert the comparison, but I was using my own anecdotal experience, owning many of the hue “White & Color Ambiance” bulbs. This anecdotal evidence equally undermines the comparison.
In any case, my above comparison was not “apples-to-apples”.
In an effort to use qualitative data, lets compare MSRP and bulb data, as taken directly from the respective sources:
As you may see, the “Hue White Bulb” is only $2/unit more than the Wyze Bulb offering, but it does not allow the user to adjust the bulb’s color temperature, as the Wyze Bulb does.
Perhaps a better comparison is the “Wyze Bulb” to the “Hue White Ambience Bulb”; you’ll observe that the Hue option costs literally 3x the cost of the Wyze bulb.
As for HomeKit connectivity, neither the Hue nor Wyze bulbs provide native support for HomeKit. Philips offers this support, in the form of bridge hardware, which has an MSRP cost of $59.99. I am well aware that the bridge can be purchased as a “starter pack” bundle including the hue light bulbs, but since Wyze has no similar offering, I chose to use the MSRP cost of the bridge alone in this comparison.
I was not aware that “… they have had the hardware custom modified for themselves by the manufacturer…”. I will search the forums for more info, as I’d be interested in how the white-box hardware has otherwise been customized at their request.
Regarding firmware (and of course, the smart-device application), yes, Wyze clearly creates and distributes these - and I agree they bring “a lot of uniqueness to the table”.
Since the hardware is white-box, the firmware and software application are the only way Wyze can otherwise differentiate these devices from any other retailer marketing the white-box hardware.
I want to stress again - I am an avid user of the WyzeCam v2, and have recommended the device to countless friends and family, resulting in the purchase of 100+ of these devices.
I’m not here trying to badmouth Wyze. But I am most certainly trying to (like many others here) share my thoughts (re: opinion, presumptions, assumptions) with the user community, even if they sometimes are the unpopular opinion.
Nothing is gained by people patting themselves on each others back and creating an echo chamber for their issues/desires/complaints, etc… But, as our dialogue has proven, real learning can happen when people open themselves to information that they perhaps don’t want to hear.
EDIT: To include clickable links to reference material.
I understand your thrust ( at least I think so ) and have no particular problems with your basic points. However I still think you are trying to draw comparisons where there frankly are none to be found.
The Wyze bulb is a WiFi bulb, the Hue line as you pointed out uses a hub. The use of the hub is to me an advantage. WiFi gets crowded with devices fairly quickly especially in the 2.4 GHz band. Frankly if I tried to replace my Hue bulbs with Wyze ones I would have issues. This is not a guess, a neighbor bought @ the same number of Wyze bulbs as I have Hue. After battling connectivity issues for 2 months he replaced them with Hue bulbs and has not had an issue since. He divvied the Wyze bulbs up between 3 of his adult children and they have been working fine. Just not 30 odd bulbs on one router.
I have 1 single Wyze bulb. Every now and then following a power failure or glitch or an internet outage it will show as offline and only power cycling the bulb will bring it back. I have had Hue bulbs for years, they have never once failed to come back from a power failure or internet outage correctly.
Now that said it’s not terrible and for the price point the bulbs perform very well otherwise.
So we can see the Wyze bulbs were a false economy. At least in large quantities. Now you can make them work with multiple access points to spread the load etc. But in general too many older (2.4Ghz) WiFi devices are not conducive to problem free operation.
I love my Wyze products and have had relatively trouble free experiences with the cameras, mostly V2’s and I have 6 or so contacts and 3 motion sensors that have performed nicely. But I am not a fan of the bulbs for the reasons just discussed.
But Wyze is pretty good at adding value and functionality to their products so the jury is still out for the long haul. And if you are only using a few bulbs they would probably be perfectly acceptable.
Please keep in mind, Philips is a World Class Lighting manufacturer, with a multitude of commercial lighting products. One of the many things that most consumer customers don’t understand about lighting is how the lamps die at the end of life. It is a very critical attribute at all Professional lighting specifiers understand.
As I’m reading many peoples postings I am concerned that most people are looking at very limited views of any light bulb.
Philips has been around for a very long time solving and providing solutions around the world, please understand it is not a good comparison to compare at a young company such as wyze with this very experience company.
I have Philips CFLs from 2000 that are still working well. The delta in energy consumption and lumen output vs todays LEDs is less than 3%.
Please be careful with what you are posting because it is not close to reality from a very technical point of view.
So this is interesting. Homekit of course available after launch though, AKA probably never.
I can tell you that Philips is very experienced at making led bulbs that buzz. Whether they’re smart, or dumb…all the Philips type A led bulbs that I have…buzz.
My Wyze bulbs do not.
That’s unfortunate to hear! None of my Hue or Wyze bulbs buzz thankfully. Phillips did replace a bulb my neighbor had that buzzed well over a year after he purchased it so I would check with them. He had an A19 bulb that buzzed at anything less than 100% output for some reason.
Specific to Homekit integration with Lock, maybe once you figure out the backend infrastructure for HomeKit and playing nice with your services and the google SDK, could you make a model of the gateway that has the HomeKit hardware built in so that us with the current generation lock can get in on the integration? thanks! @Frederik @UserCustomerGwen
PLEASE integrate HomeKit🙏🏻 even if you need a hub like aqara. Apple users would o than fine if that meant HomeKit control. Also with a hub. You could Bring HomeKit to older Devices like YeeLight was able to.
Is there any update on Apple HomeKit Intergration?