that made me lol
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Wow, a thicket! I canāt help but respond.
First, itās probably obvious & youāve probably considered it but moving-out seems like a great option. Not because of the harassment but because the building management, the police and the law donāt seem to be on your side ā the things youāve described are awful. Is living in this exact place, across from someone who treats you horribly, truly worth any benefit?
Letās assume it is or you wouldnāt be asking.
A camera wonāt solve the problem of the building management ignoring your requests and (importantly) that response is a sign they arenāt likely to evict or take other action to stop this behavior. Thatās a huge obstacle to a permanent resolution.
Even if you get the camera working well, even if you catch this neighbor behaving poorly, will it be enough? Will it truly change the minds of the building management and the reticent police?
In any case, I donāt know about the laws of the UK but it sounds like much of the abuse is verbal so Iād check on the possibility of audio recording. Peep-hole camera sounds great. Might also consider enlisting the help of other neighbors who could place a camera pointed down the hallway without violating your neighbors privacy by peering into their unit when the door is open.
Iād strongly advise you consult legal assistance and a counselor - living with trauma takes a toll, especially when itās right outside your door. You deserve to live in a community that supports you and it sounds like this one isnāt.
One last thought, even if you canāt have the camera outside your unit, you can keep it inside your unit, pointed at your door (preferably so you can see out when the door opens). Should this neighbor ever come into your unit or try and say something while the door is open youād still have a recording.
Best of luck, stay safe and keep in mind you what it would mean to live in peace.
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First off, Iām sorry about your situation. A big part of the reason I got my Wyze camera and home monitoring is troublesome neighbors.
If youāre absolutely certain you can legally place a camera outside the door, I would try to hide it. Put it in a potted plant or some kind of decoration. As long as your neighbor wonāt destroy it, that is.
Honestly, though, I think your best choice is to get a peephole camera. Peepholes basically unscrew, If you were to buy a peephole cam, like suggested, you could remove (and save) the current peephole and install a cam. If done properly, if wonāt damage the door and you can put the original peephole back in, if needed. However, as noted, you neighbor would probably just cover the camera somehow.
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I thought the same thing. His response seemed a little rude.
@martinajane12 I feel your pain. I really hope your situation improves. Soon. We are all here for you.
I donāt know the laws in the UK but I know āprivacyā has a different meaning and is more stringent than in the US. Obviously we donāt want you to violate any laws and any of the building policies. Keep in mind though that āprivacyā that āprotectsā your neighbor also applies to you.
I understand that civil matters are not handled by the police there. But assault from your neighbor should be. I hope you filed the report for the few times your neighbor assaulted you. The police should have investigated (gathered evidence, medical reports, talked to the neighbor who for sure denied it, etc.). It may not bring immediate action and doesnāt protect you for that incident but at least it will be on record. While your neighbor is using privacy laws to prevent you from installing a camera on the public hallway, Iām sure there are harassment and assault laws, even in the UK that you can use against your neighbor.
Sounds like your neighbor may have some pull. That or everyone is just trying to protect their ass and not interested in protecting their tenants/citizens.
Is moving an option? I know itās not the best option but you have to think of whatās best for you.
As one of the people here suggested, consult a lawyer. We can provide technical information and support (also emotional) but you will need legal support from a a lawyer. Looks like the law that applies is called the āData Protection Act 1998ā.
As far as peep hole camera there are many options in the market. Some as easy as pulling out your existing one and putting in the camera. You neighbor can argue that it āviolates his/her privacyā just like the camera outside your door but thatās arguable.
Hereās a link to a peep hole camera that may work.
https://www.amazon.com/Brinno-Peephole-Security-Long-Lasting-Battery/dp/B087M79YDL
theres no expectation of privacy recognized if thr area being filmed or viewed if it is a public place or common area in california. i think it is same in all states,but uk i have no idea. You need a lawyer so you can be told how to avoid doing something illegal for starters
Iāve been reading about UK laws and while Iām not a lawyer and these should not be taken as legal advise, and to stay on topic from your original post, hereās a few things I came across:
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If your neighbor moved your camera without your permission, you can use that against him. Hopefully you have the recording of him/her doing so. While he may claim privacy issues, he can complain about it and the police can discuss it with you, but your neighbor cannot take it upon him/herself to touch your property and move the camera. Doing so would be against him/her.
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While you may need to comply with the building direction to remove the camera from outside your apartment looking at the hallway, you have the right to install a camera within your property (in this case, your apartment). This includes the suggestion of someone here to place a camera inside your apartment thatās facing your door. This protects you (via evidence) from people entering your apartment or arguing with you at your door. The peep hole camera suggestion here would also be covered since itās in your property and youāre looking out of your door, like any doorbell camera would. The fact that your neighborās property is across you and purposely leaves his door open to claim privacy issues is irrelevant. Whatās relevant is the purpose of your camera, which is to protect yourself and your property, not to violate his privacy or voyeurism.
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You have rights under āHuman Rights Act 1998ā and āProtection From Harassment Act 1997ā that can help you against your neighborās anti-social behavior.
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You have the right against noise pollution under āNoise Act 1996ā for when your neighbor is playing loud noise.
Hope this helps and of course, if youāre going to place a camera inside your apartment facing your door, be sure to use a Wyze camera so we donāt get thrown out of these forums. LOL.
Personally, I wouldnāt be too concerned with screwing the camera to your door. If the management isnāt doing anything about all this stuff your neighbor does, I doubt theyād bother with you doing that. And if they do, you can explain that you did this after months/years of them not doing anything about the situation with the neighbor.
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Normally I would agree with you but since OP already got a letter to remove the camera, leaving it there or screwing it in at this point can/would be taken against the OP.
You should always make your cameras hidden. and tell no one you have them. No one wants or likes someone elseās cameras watching them,even if you personally arent. Its human nature. This guys already pissed at you and if you try to contine monitoring where he walks or lives,even if you are legally allowed to,this problem will just get worse. I dont care how you mount it. If he sees it he will likekly tear it off the wall and then after that,well, just dont push it. You will save your self alot of grief if you do as I suggested
Yes, you have it right.
@PalmSprings
The camera on the outside of door is fairly recentā¦in 2 years of daily hell. He smashed my car up over a year ago, and dog poo outside my front door, and there was no camera and I have done nothing to him. There is nothing I can do but put a camera up. There is an argument for the camera helping deter behaviour like leaving poo outside my front door. It is also the only way to get evidence to show his door open throughout the day and night, or him slamming the door at 3am or 4am.
No one likes a camera put up.
Also there is no way to hide it, otherwise I would of done.
You say ādont push itā. what do you mean? This is the only way to get evidence. You think I donāt worry about it, and go over the perdicament of it making things worse? I have no choice. He has given me no choice. Yes I understand it can make things worse having a camera. I have been physically and mentally damaged over a long period of time before a camera is even put up.
Thanks for your message
Canāt move, Various reasons, mostly health based and the housing situation. Wonāt go into it. Too much to say.
Will it truly change their mindsā¦well Iām challenging it. I did my appeal 23rd May with council and no reply to it, no acknowledgement of it, and many emails asking. So Iām now talking to their solicitor who is asking for a weekās evidence. What! You get daily evidence, weeks of evidence, since January! And she had a meeting with the team prior to asking. So the Council is not being transparent with her it seems. Thereās more to say but too much to go into. Basically, after I did my appeal I have been fobbed off. The local councillor is on the case too as he said he cannot understand why they have only just emailed me the criteria for taking actionā¦ 5 months later, and still have not responded to my appeal from May.
Neighbours cannot help. Our hallway is segregated and is just a short corridor with our two flats. Others live on floors above.
I could have a camera in my flat but it wonāt record the incidences. Wonāt hear sound of abuse, his door open, the dog alone, going through packaging and so on.
Thanks for messaging.
Canāt hide it.
Not allowed a pot in hall for example anyway. He had a pit in hallway and was told to remove it.
Could get a peephole camera. But donāt know how to fit it. Solves it being moved. But then the authorities will see I still am using a camera, and Iām told Iām not allowed to have it - but nothing is going to change that reaction from the housing association.
Thanks for messaging.
X2 assults were not captured because on CCTV in garden where dog poo and poo bags is left. I was taking a photo of the poo both times and then I have to scramble to get video recording in 2 secondsā¦but my body has other ideas as Iām immediately shaking and canāt think straight, no time. Get back into hallway asap. Police canāt do anything without evidence. Actually he brags to neighbours outside my window and door on different days, saying how the police rang him and dropped it, laughed, calling me a stupid cow and mad woman. Just adds to my anxiety, hearing his voice outside my property bragging to whoever has an ear. Another time was saying to neighbours I was complaining his door was open and laughing.
Thanks but I donāt need a lawyer, plus itās not free. He already has cost me Ā£800 aprox for my car damage. I donāt need lawyer because I have an email from the government on what I can and canāt do on putting a camera up. This email is well old. I found this out months and months before I got oneā¦ Because of the anxiety it would make him worse.
Thanks for the link for the peephole cam.
Yea I could, I have thought about it. But they charge you at the end of the tenancy for damage to property, or maybe at the time they find out.
Thanks for looking.
- I have recordings of the first 3 timesā¦after that it happens too much. Police canāt do anything as he would argue privacy law. And police said no point getting more evidence for it being moved. I spent hours getting the evidence for it, having to find it in the camera history, forwarding it to police as requested, taking screenshots because it wonāt send in the email, then spending ages taking screen shots as every time it is taken his hand is in the way or the delay causes a blurry pic. Anyway, a lot of effort again for nothing. Though I agree with police, they were never going to be able to charge him for just moving my camera. Different if he smashed it up.
- Actually it is not covered. When I had the wyze as a peephole they told me then Iām not allowed to record him. Of course I need to send them the evidence showing it is a peephole camera. Itās the housing association being an arse about what Iām going through, and instead protecting the perpetrator. āWhatās relevant is the purpose of your camera, which is to protect yourself and your property, not to violate his privacy or voyeurism.ā - I know this but the law on privacy does not recognise this.
- The law for ASB including noise is dealt with by the council and housing association. But they are not doing nothing. And there are loopholes. For example they said it must be proven smoke is coming into your flat and we need to smell it, so itās not proven his smoke is an issue. They canāt smell it, it happens at 11pm, 12pm, 1am - 4am, weekends. They say there is no proof whose dog is doing the poo (so they arenāt taking action). They even said it is not persistent behaviour so wonāt be dealt with despite daily evidence proving this is bull. Told we canāt prove he is the smoker if there are other smokers in propertyā¦ And so on. This all from the councillors solicitor recently!
The local councillor said although their are laws, the criteria to take action to fine someone is high, so may get nowhere. Itās their attitudes that are the barrier, more than the law.
The problem is he gets away with it all, again. He had a warning letter from the Council in March and his behaviour continues daily since. Between April and now he would of recieved thousands of pounds in fines if it was dealt with. If he even got a few fines back in April this may of all stopped 2 months ago. Except ASB is still daily and I still canāt use the outside space this summer. Itās lovely weather now, and in England it is unpredictable and winter comes quick. Again, Iām stuck in my flat and canāt use the garden. I could of had smoke free flat for 2 months and use of the garden this summer. The Council and housing association ruin my life too because of their attitude throughout. - You have to prove noise level. Canāt do that unless someone hears it. No one comes out despite me asking. Police donāt deal with civil matters. All these behaviours are hard to prove in law. What you record on a phone can sound loud but unless you have another noise along side it, you canāt judge the loudness accurately. Even if I talk on the recording, you canāt tell how loud I am. If my mouth is near the speaker but his door is 2 meters away, my voice is going to sound like shouting in comparison. If I donāt talk the speaker doesnāt pick up the loudness either, I know from recording him talking which is even nearer the device, you have to be right next to the phone speaker to pick it up. I have lost a ton of evidence for this reason. Much of this happens at 12pm through to early hours. Tbh the noise is also the least of all of the issues. Smoke in my bedroom and bathroom when washing is horrendous. They reported to me he has his windows open like everything bis fine now they see thisā¦ erm, and what about the night time and winter time!
But when reported, they never come, or 4 hours later when it is less because I have to air the hallway by opening garden door between our properties, and when they have come on another day they say they reported they canāt smell anything. He then brags about this to the neighbours. They send me email to say they canāt smell anything as if Iām not being truthful! And come maybe 3 times in 5 months. It doesnāt happen 24/7, how can one person smoke heavily 24/7! It happens when I report it. So itās not taken seriously and Iām mega stressed. Then I get emails saying you need to tell us when it happens. Many of these emails, and many times I repeat that I do report every time! I keep repeating it happens outside your working hours or when it happens in work hours you donāt come immediately. I canāt stand it so have to open the garden door to air it. Which he immediately slams shut and shouts at me to keep it shut, this even in the daytime. He clearly does not care about security since his door is always open, he just slams it shut to distress me and keep smoke in the hallway which is going into my flat. Housing association reaction is to tell me it has to stay shut for insurance reasonsā¦despite me explaining several times the impact on me, yet they donāt care about the fire risk of his door being open all day and all night for 2 years which would affect insurance should someone dieā¦ They just donāt want to deal with it. Itās easier to tell me to stop opening the garden door than to make him cease by taking him to court. Would cost them money so they dropped court action twice about the fog fouling and leaving the dog alone. So neighbour is laughing every time at warning letters for deadlines turning into grace periods, turning into further grace periods, turning into warning for court actionā¦ All going no where. Then they tell me reason is there is not enough evidenceā¦ which is bullā¦ They have evidence every week for 2 years.
Not enough evidence but they donāt want me to have a camera either.
And get thisā¦
The latest is the council have emailed me saying they are restricting me because Iām sending them too many emails (evidence and emailing asking for a reply as they never respond)
So they are penalising me for not taking action and not acknowledging emails for the last 2 years that include a fire opposite my flat by him, and an assult by him, months and months ago.
@martinajane12 Iām really sorry this is happening to you. Please let us know how else we could be of assistance aside from moral and technical support.
I meant ā¦dont get into a tit for tat with him.
These things i got from some of your posts
1-"Management isnāt doing anything about all this stuff your neighbor does
2-police dont help,
3-mgmt doesnt help
4-lost an appeal from mgmt
5- mgmt not responding to you after 5 mo.
6- nothing is going to change the reaction from the housing association.
7- police rang him and dropped it, laughed, calling me a stupid cow and mad woman.
8- the housing association being an arse about what Iām going through, and instead protecting the perpetrator.
noise is dealt with by the council and housing association. But they are not doing nothing. And there are loopholes.
9-They say there is no proof whose dog is doing the poo (so they arenāt taking action). They even said it is not persistent behaviour so wonāt be dealt with despite DAILY evidence proving this is bull. Told we canāt prove he is the smoker if there are other smokers in propertyā¦ And so on.
10-The problem is he gets away with it all, again. He had a warning letter from the Council in March and his behaviour continues daily since.
11-Iām stuck in my flat and canāt use the garden. I could of had smoke free flat for 2 months and use of the garden this summer. The Council and housing association ruin my life too because of their attitude throughout.
12 You have to prove noise level. Canāt do that unless someone hears it. No one comes out despite me asking. Police donāt deal with civil matters. All these behaviours are hard to prove in law.
.It sounds like something else May be going on here too. A response from
a lawyer should be sufficient. If he sees the potential for him to cash in too , then at least you wont be out money .
like corerresource ( next post)says" nasty" is better. Just remember,they are double edged
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Get a nasty lawyer. The lawyer will send him a certified letter that threatens him with legal action if he touches your stuff or otherwise harasses you. That generally dissuades people. Itāll cost you a couple hundred bucks, but itāll probably work. You could also go with a no-contact order issued from the court. They are relatively easy to get.